TMorbut I thought I remembered a Singapore pilot telling me that he’d played with Rafale’s AESA offering.
LoL
I told you, by MP at the time, that Rafale had the AESA there, in answer to your poor performance claims.
I see you easy get impressed by bombastic words (on both sides) and I’d suggest more knowledge/learning and less paraphrasing of factually irrelevant texts…
LoL
Bombastic words are made for a particular purpose. I’m not the one who use them so often.
Ca sert vraiment à rien… Quelle perte de temps…
TMorI swear i will cut up my old pipe in small pieces and eat it if they build a cockpit innit !
😀 I nearly agree with you, but i don’t want to cut my pipe.
Up to now, Rafale is the last manned fighter for France. What will come next ? We don’t know.
TMorThe Brazilian armed forces are very very late in fielding UAVs, so manufacturing them, at least to me seams absurdly farfetched at this stage.
nEUROn may not end up as a UCAV.
It’s a study which could become a piloted aircraft too. We don’t know yet, and Dassault works on the developpement of the airframe and FCS.
This is were it can be interesting for Brazil : working on a future stealthy airframe. Rafale already incorporate modern avionics in which Brazil can take part too.
All in all, Brazil could get some work and competence in both field in an advanced stage, even if the Rafale airframe will remain unchanged.
TMoraussies dont have a dog in this race, so i accept what they said, its coming from too many sources
Why the words “too many” ? Were you too tired to ask them ?
The only source i know about Sg comparing Typhoon and Rafale is JackoLake and his article “Eastern Smile”.
Do they lie too?
AFM has learnt “unofficially” “against orders”…
“The Typhoon were over the moon” !:eek:
“Typhoon exceeded all expectations (sic), and blew their F-16 out of the sky !”
Rafale too, in a much more impressive scenario than 1 vs 3.
What is the quoted “capability edge” ? etc
Unsigned, with the same arguments than JAckoLake.
TMorNever seen any mention of that. Are you sure?
Unclear. A&C reported that a special radar had been showed.
First time i read it i thought about the AESA, but it may not be the case, after all.
But remember that DRAA had been flown, and might have been available for demo… maybe in France.
TMorWhat I don’t get is, why the rest of us need to suffer on that account?
Yes… AFM left this article unsigned. More to this : it is unsigned, and quotes anonymous sources.
Sorry, but any French magazine could also publish unsigned articles with anonymous sources. It’s in their right, they could do this for the fun, but actually, French Rafale pilots talks and give their names so as you can ask them again later.
Anyway, EF flew DACTs against Greece F16s/Hungarian Gripens, etc…and participating pilots confirmed EF’s performance (all sides), which eventually got wired through official channels.
Yes… then ? How many of them were Rafale pilots ?
Now, this is a part of interest. Many French posters exhibit dissatisfaction with JOUST results and that’s all right, since I don’t care about coefficients, either…
However, the trouble is that those same posters seconds later come with similar Dutch evaluation figures and equally abstract Singaporean “second” place, although Rafale fell behind EF in actual performance.
Imagine a guy who knows Rafale says that :
Think whatever you want, this is part of the Rafale news, so we have every reasons to post it here for those who are interested in Rafale, learn about it, what surrounds it, the feelings etc. We are perfectly able to post weaknesses, though it’s harder, since noone is willing to talk about it (unless the guy is… ! LoL)
Now, imagine a Eurofighter commercial reads it all. As his point is to tell the world that his product is the best, he naturally has to prove that the Typhoon is better than Rafale in most aspect, and very close in others…
So here we go :
As you can see, every strengh of Rafale are disputed, some are turned into weaknesses, with no source, while Typhoon’s strengths are highlighted with the help of this comparison and problems are ignored, or even denied.
Guess what, dear Cola… ? All those arguments, whether they look valid or not (and you know that “valid” doesn’t mean “true”), are Jackonicko’s. No jock, please check.
In italic, only approximative quotes, in bold, quite accurate quotes.
I let you browse the forum. Look after Jacko’s negative comments about Typhoon, look at the number of messages he posted to comment what we French reported about Rafale, look at the amount of energy he spent to calm down Typhoon fanboys exaggerations…
What i’m saying you here might explain you why all French are against JackoLake, since we simply can’t post anything without seeing him jump on the occasion to bash Rafale again and again. And it’s the reason why i left, on my own decision, for some months, being regretted by many people here (it sounds pretentious, but it’s true).
Even if his arguments look valid he still has to give names, still have to learn us anything about Rafale, still has to give arguments which would not counterdict what is published in Arthuro’s sources, in France etc.
“Simple truth”, as he would say. “Cold hard facts”. And it’s a 5 years story, at least.
Will we ever have peace in a Rafale threads ? Will we ever have the right to post links with named sources without seeing Jacko criticising, discrediting etc Even jackjack is a fine guy compared to JackoLake. At least, jackjack pushed us to post technical data.
TMorhttp://www.institutodeengenharia.org.br/site/pffnot.php?id_sessao=4&id_noticia=2974
and
Of course, you should disregard google’s horrendous
numbers translation and check the original.
Thank you ! Interesting and -i think- balanced.
By the way, what if Dassault/France offer Brazil a place in the development of nEUROn ?
TMorThe carrot is just your habbits to use fine words to convince to trust you.
We have to be “intelligent” to side with you.
TMor2) Typhoon did better than the competing aircraft in the A-A scenarios conducted in Singapore.
Maybe, but the 1 vs 3 story isn’t relevant.
I’m not sure you’ve understood why the bunny.
PS : i’m happy you wrote all of this again. LoL
TMor2) In view of the hints, it will be interesting to see if one of the more intelligent French posters digs out the truth for themselves.
TMorI’ve talked to a lot of people about it since then
Me too.
I’ve still NEVER heard anything to materially challenge the story as outlined.
I’m not denying that Typhoon was the only one to defeat 3 F-16. :rolleyes: Actually, my sources didn’t speak about Typhoon performance at all.
The problem is that this bit you quote is “misleading”, because it’s not “the whole truth”, and the source “left out enough for what he said to be nonsense.”
And no sensible neutral source has ever denied that BAE made a complete mess of the bid.
Sure, it doesn’t help.
1) It’s fun watching how far you chaps push this claim.
No. The fun comes from the fact that as Glitter said, we only conclude that Rafale can compete with Typhoon in A2A, but you spend an enormous amount of time and effort to avoid our comments from being left without an answer.
Quite intriguing.
TMor“Typhoon won all three combat tests, including one in which a single Typhoon defeated three RSAF F-16s, and reliably completed all planned flight tests. According to one observer, neither competitor aircraft could claim the same (Defence Analysis August 2004).”
“Not the whole truth”, “He left out enough for what he said to be nonsense.”
TMorFirstly, no-one dismisses the credibility of Lt Colonel Grandclaudon, it has merely been suggested that his claims are wrong, and that he has given a statement that is based on a partial and misleading view of what happened at ATLC.
Firstly, no, it hasn’t merely been suggested…
… you repeat it over and over again, “they’re wrong.”.
You also said “Not the whole truth, though. He left out enough for what he said to be nonsense.”
Which is more than a suggestion, nobody is fooled.
So, according to you, Lt Colonel Grandclaudon has hidden the truth. It can’t be unvolontarily, only intentional.
Secondly (as you can see, you’re my best english teacher, i hope you’re proud) : you claimed also that you’re about to publish an article…
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/401119-typhoons-aldhafra.html#post5426181
The truth is out there, at least one of the PPRuNing journos is working on it through proper channels, and that truth will emerge in the fullness of time.
The impression given thus far is, at best, misleading.
And your siamese brother said that :
http://typhoon.starstreak.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1836
Mercifully, for Typhoon enthusiasts, the facts do seem to be extremely encouraging, and when they emerge some people are going to look really rather silly.
Thus, yes, the Lt Colonel’s credibility is dismissed. Not “merely suggested” to be misleading.
when all of the other evidence would suggest that, in A-A combat, it is Typhoon that has the edge.
“Not the whole truth”, you… “left out enough for what [you] said to be nonsense.” 😀
TMorDRFM isn’t a technique, it’s a technology. So, it’s hard to conclude.
TMorisnt the aesa a transmit and receive in the same bit and the jammer and rwr is separate bits ?
AESA is just an array (active, and phased). Just like the active phased array of the transmitters of Spectra.
However, i think you are true if you mean that for Spectra, T and R are separate bits, while they come all together on the future RBE-2 AA (active, this time).
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