even though a possible Libyan order for 13-18 Rafales (value: 3.24 billion euros) is being discussed.
They have funny figures in this article.
In late January, on the “France Info” radio, the deal had a value of €2.5Bn for 14 Rafale.
If this article is serious, that would mean that discussions are now about 18 Rafale (€3.22Bn).
http://www.france-info.com/spip.php?article72520&theme=81&sous_theme=132
La Libye s’apprête à débourser 2,5 milliards d’Euros pour se payer des Rafale français. A Paris, le ministère de la Défense a confirmé cette semaine que les discussions pour la vente de 14 avions Rafale à la Libye entraient dans leur ultime phase commerciale.
In this case (€2.5Bn for 14 or 3.22 for 18), the unit price is €179M per Rafale. We still don’t know what Rafale Libya wants (90kN M88 ? AESA ? etc). If they buy the AESA variant, then, it’s nearly what the F4 standard was to be !
Of course what happen half a second later…….can you say fire ball!:diablo:
Yes, you’re true, because the Rafale will use L16 to shoot a missile on the F-35 behind.:D
the Rafale is so full load that probably has the EJ200 engine
😀
Notice that the engines look a bit small ! 😀
I could also show you a pic with a Rafale loaded with a JDAM (dropping it), and Rockeyes (or something), being shot at by a F-35 with its gun… 😀
http://www.jeux-france.com/images2_4_25756.html
😀
Kovy, Tmor, not a word about the strange article for an another “close to be signed” sale of 20 Rafale in UAE ?
No.
But at least, Rafale is already a fine CAS fighter, according to UbiSoft, in the last Tom Clancy’s game trailer :
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=etlYWWbAxeA
😀
You are positive Tmor, if the number of Raffy will be reduced the prices will grow up ad the future development will be more difficult.
France intends to pay €9.2Bn of R&D (7.2 + 2). This should happen, whatever the number of Rafale ordered.
Then, the production quote (~19Bn€) is where economies of scale really impacts.
If production is reduced by 15%, then, the production quote could decrease by 15percent too (this is extremely approximative of course).
We keep the same (or nearly the same) flyaway price (it should actually increase a bit, due to low production rate, and lower economies of scale, and so on), the overal program cost is reduced (and France pays less) because the production quote decreases.
And of course, France will have paid more than originally planned for each fighter (because the R&D is divided by a lower number of planes), but it’s quite an irrelevant figure, because in no way it’s a price. It’s only a figure, a cost for France.
Then, you could be true, depending on our export policy…
It wasn’t April’s fool.
I’m not sure of the future of PA2.
I don’t know if the Marine will reduce its number of Rafale.
It could be 44 fighters less for the AdA.
In addition, the nuclear strike fleet could be reduced by one third, and i’m afraid it will impact on the number of Rafale ordered in the next order, expected to be signed in late 2008 or early 2009 (40 instead of 60?). If less Rafale ordered, then the production rate will decrease to (already lower than 1.5 Rafale per month), which would be quite catastrophic.
I’m afraid that our current government isn’t the one which can take such decision. It’s too early.
Cutting 44 aircrafts it looks to me as too much and will increase the unit costs.
Total program unit cost, yes. But that’s only from our Gvt point of view. This shouldn’t increase the flyaway cost by much.
🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
L’armée de l’air fait les comptes
Après le discours du Président Sarkozy à Cherbourg, et en filigrane dans le prochain Livre blanc, on devrait découvrir des objectifs plus modestes, voire plus adaptés budgétairement en matière de commandes totales de Rafale. Soit 250 avions en tout contre les 294 prévus initialement…
http://www.ttu.fr/francais/TTUonline.html
Finally, we should get only 250 Rafale, instead of 294. 🙁 Nothing official yet. But chances are that it will really happen.
Exported a few as soon as 1994…
What do you think about the M88 news ?
While, in France, we wonder about the fact that af.mil do not report a single Rafale gun strafe, show of force, or GBU firing, in Afghanistan, the Snecma has been awarded a contract :
http://www.snecma.com/article.php3?id_article=719&lang=en
DGA awards M88 TCO contract to Snecma
The French defense agency DGA (Délégation Générale pour l’Armement) announced on January 2008 that it was awarding to Snecma the “TCO Pack” (Total Cost of Ownership) contract for the M88-2 engine which power Rafale multirole fig (designated “Pack CGP” in French). The TCO Pack contract will support the development and production of upgrades to M88-2 engine parts, an order for 16 engines and spare parts with long lead times, and the associated repair services.
Upgrades are planned to the high-pressure compressor and high-pressure turbine, and are derived from various technologies tested during the ECO exploratory development program.
Qualification of these modifications and delivery of the first production engine to the TCO Pack standard are scheduled for 2011.
http://www.snecma.com/IMG/pdf/Fact_sheet_Snecma_M88_pack_CGP_VA_OK.pdf
2/ M88 ECO technology program
The ECO technology program, designed to demonstrate new technologies that could reduce operating costs and increase dispatch reliability, was completed at the end of 2007. It also aimed to study the feasibility of increasing the engine’s thrust without changing its weight or fuel consumption.
In the fall of 2004, Snecma kicked off tests of a technology demonstrator designed to reduce the M88’s total cost of ownership and lay groundwork for future enhancements.
The M88 ECO demonstrator focuses on several areas of improvement: low-pressure compressor with a “blisk” – integrally-bladed disk – offering higher flowrates and compression ratio; a new afterburner system with a ceramic matrix composite (CMC) nozzle to reduce weight; and a new high-pressure turbine architecture with cooled blades to increase mean time between inspections. All in all, the ECO program concerns about 60% of the parts on the M88.
Two M88 engines were dedicated to this program, one for performance testing and the other for endurance testing.
The M88 ECO program satisfied all of its initial objectives, spanning increased engine part life, lower cost of ownership (including reduced operating costs) and higher performance (4,000 total accumulated cycles/TAC). The test engines logged more than 150 hours of flight tests, and the equivalent of 1,800 hours of flight under Rafale mission conditions. This program also checked out the feasibility of increasing M88 engine thrust to about 20,000 lb.
ECO will guarantee the competitiveness of all evolved versions of the Rafale fighter, including both maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) for higher payload capacity and performance throughout the flight envelope.
TMor, look in here:
http://www.eurofighter.ch/1024/fr/partner_air_forces/partner_air_forces.html
😀
:rolleyes:
Partnaire : they need to learn how it spells… Partenaire.
Armées : no need for plural. => armée
aire : “aire” means area. But i think they were talking about “air”.
😀
Partnaire de l’armées de l’aire 😀
=> «Partenaire de l’Armée de l’Air».:D
extremely powerful, highly agile and very discrete
😉
Fitted with an awesome weapon load
:p
integrating the largest and most modern sensors
😎
has a unique combined situational awareness and omnirole combat capability.
😀
“combat proven” in Afghanistan
:rolleyes:
outstanding capabilities in a real war environment.
😮
Very funny article. Thanks, Scorpion 😀 😀 .
What a shame.
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fr/aviation/presse/press-kits/2008/gie-rafale-en-ordre-de-bataille-en-grece.html?cHash=7d5391cba9
The Defense Aerospace article is just a translation from the Dassault’s site.
I can guarantee you there will be no Rafale in the Luftwaffe and what a bunch of people might want is totally irrelevant.
I agree, this is way i concluded like this :
So, again, the Rafale is being used to negotiate an other fighter procurement cost.
Maybe it’s not well formulated… ?:D
Italy have shown an interest in reducing its tranche 3 buy. The only partners fully commited are Germany and Spain.
Hum, i’m sorry, i can’t resist anymore.:D
The following do not contradict you, and isn’t intended to flame. I think it’s an interesting thing to know :
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13/rap-info/i0717.asp
In this report from the Assemblée Nationale (february the 13th of 2008), a German “Dr Markus Kerber” declared :
M. Jean-Michel Fourgous, Rapporteur : Quel est le rapport de prix entre l’Eurofighter et le Rafale ?
M. Markus Kerber : Il est très favorable au Rafale, peut-être d’un tiers. Je puis vous dire que le lobbying de la part des industriels européens a pris des proportions considérables. Or il faut aussi comparer les deux avions du point de vue de leurs performances…
Note that he also complained about the strength of the European industrials’ lobbying…
[*]that he and the president of the Finance Committee of the Bundestag were pushing to convince the German MoD to launch a tender for the last tranch. He hopes that the MoD will dare to ask a quote to Dassault.
Je suis aussi de ceux qui pensent – tout comme le président de la commission des finances du Bundestag – que l’Allemagne devrait ouvrir un appel d’offres pour la troisième tranche de l’Eurofighter. J’attends du ministre de la défense qu’il ait le courage de demander un devis à Dassault.
So, again, the Rafale is being used to negotiate an other fighter procurement cost. 😀 Boring.
No reason why not. The SPICE series can store 100 preprogrammed targets with the user selecting the final target before weapon launch.
When is the standard Inertial & GPS AASM to enter service? Is the rocket booster standard?
All AASM will have a rocket booster. This is what makes it a relatively cheap stand-off weapon.
The INS/GPS variant should enter service soon, maybe this summer, i think.