Even the Rafale claims a range of around 80km for the OSF.
No. Best claims about the OSF IRST range is 130km.
The OSF TV is generally given for a range in excess of 20 miles, but then it depends on the target, figures vary between 50 and 80km…
I’m sorry, it was off-topic.
Are there any known reasons for that?
Not official yet. Thales plan to buy Sagem, but for the HMS, I don’t know.
In our forum, we suspect Sagem to have upset the DGA… ๐ But it’s not official. Sagem was the designer of the OSF’s IRST, of the AASM, of the HMS… And now, AASM is very late, IRST won’t be provided by Sagem for the OSF-IT, and the HMS is dropped… There’s something unclear ! :rolleyes: ๐ก
The lack of such a device is clearly a disadvantage. Without it how will the Rafale perform a HOBS shot without the MIDS?
The electronic scanning RBE-2 track nearly instantaneously any target in a 120ยฐ cone… But in excess of 60ยฐ, i see no solution.
I have some doubts that Spectra alone makes it possible
Me too.
Is the HMD cancelled for the french forces or do they only want another one?
French forces just want another ! This is what i wanted to say.
It’s cancelled for F3, but AdA will buy it later. Just delayed in fact, and that Thales probably will be prefered.
And my understanding of the situation is that if Thales isn’t ready for an eventual export customer, then, an israeli solution will be chosen. ๐
For off-boresight designation, still have the L16. It’s all a matter of sensor fusion, then. It works with Mica IR, it works against SAM.
Rafale without a helmet will be stupidly and unnecessarily constrained. Utter madness. I find it almost impossible to believe.
Ce n’est que partie remise…
If it’s not for F3, it may come later for… F3++, or F3+++++, who knows ? F25 ?:D
So no helmet, as it stands at the mo?
They still use the LA100… ๐
http://www.flightgear.dk/gallet.htm
TMor,
Though Rafale M has flown with 2,000 litre tanks, and has done so on the carrier (most recently during CDG7) these are still subsonic only, and operational aircraft on board the CDG use the 1,250 litre tanks.
The AdA Rafale fly with the 2000L subsonic too. These tanks are cleared for supersonic when empty (or nearly empty).
The new configuration, with 2 x 2000L on the carrier is just cleared, and would give the Rafale M an increased range. And they’ll use them.
========================================
On June 5, 2007, a French Navy Rafale carried out the second integration firing of the AASM air-to-ground modular weapon during a maritime test campaign of the CdG7 Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier.
With the aim of demonstrating the AASMโs ability to be fired from an aircraft carrier, the firing was carried it out as part of an operational mission that included several in-flight refuelings. The Rafale, which was catapulted in the Mediterranean, executed its mission over the Landes missile launching test centerโs firing range.
The mission was a complete success in significant cloud coverage conditions, which extended to low altitudes and prevented direct view of the target, consequently demonstrating the AASMโs all-weather capability. The firing of a salvo of two AASMs resulted in high-precision synchronous hits on the same target.
Following a first firing carried out on April 26, 2007, this second AASM integration firing concludes the demonstration of the weaponโs operational ability on the Rafale. With its accurate all-weather standoff firing capability, the AASM provides forces with totally new air-to-ground capabilities.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/
====================================
I can’t remember what i said before, so :
–the OSF-IT will not have the IRST, just the TV channel. The Sagem’s upgraded IRST is too costly, and the result isn’t granted. Thus, Thales could be the producer of the new IRST of the OSF-IT, but the 60 first Rafale to receive OSF-IT will not have their IRST (just the TV).
–The standard F3 will finally not have the HMS (what a shame). Here again, Sagem was finally dropped, and Thales should come back.
As a reminder :
Sagem proposed the Gerfaut, wich won against the Topsight-E in 2004.
Here is the Gerfaut :
(sorry very small)
And here is the former Topsight by Thales (Sextant) :

But this very futuristic and funny helmet has changed…
So, here is the Topsight-E (wich is the same, except that the E allow for the use of any oxygen mask) :
The Topsight-E is qualified for MiG-29, and in use in Indian Marine, on MiG-29K. It could be integrated to Rafale, but I can’t say when.
According to JP Latrigue, who Art talked to at Le Bourget, if a foreign customer want a HMS, an Israeli HMS could be chosen…
๐
the Marine Nationale Rafales could only carry the 250 kg GBUs and 1250L tanks and no AtoA missiles because the “catapult domain” was not yet opened up.
Nic
At least, now, the two 1250L tanks have been replaced by 2000L tanks. Don’t know for the Mica…
http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=105033 ๐
(might have been a book, magazine or website I don’t know anymore).
The no more online Dassault’s site for Singapore showed such a possibility. But i didn’t save it too… ๐
Rest is roughly two tons for refueling pod, tanks, pylons, pilot and stuff. Seems like one ton is missing.
True. But it’s the M1 which is instrumented. I really don’t know if it would add up, but it’s not necessarily negligible.
http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=105033
This is were i got the figures… The site talk about a 4x2000L configuration (mistake, because it would make 11,1tons of fuel, not 10), and a MTOW of 22,2tons.
The refuel pod is a Douglas D-827-B1, but I don’t know how much it weights.
10,196 (empty weight)
+228 (2x Mica)
+480 (2x RPL 751 -2000L tanks)
+100 (their pylons)
+360 (2x RPL xxx -1250L tanks)
+100 (pylons)
+4700 (internal fuel)
+5200 (external fuel)
————————-
21364
Still lacks 836kg ๐
-> Douglas pod (~300kg + 90kg of fuel ?)
-> pilot and stuff (~ 100kg)
-> oil ?
-> 125 30mm rounds… (>72kg…)
-> instruments
Further, she could easily carry 4 but combined with external tanks, CFT’s, and 4-AAM’s. Could she effectively operate from a Carrier? Surely, with such a large load weight vs drag starts to become a major issue……………:(
You mean with 4 Mica, 4 drop tank, and the CFT’s ? wow… I’m not sure the catapult would cope with such a heavy aircraft… ๐
Exactely.
It is said that in this configuration, it brings 10 tons of fuel. Notice that it still has a self defense capability ๐ ๐

It was the first time a Rafale took off from the carrier at 22,500kg.
They were most probably empty. From my own estimates, the gross weight (assuming 2 MICA under the belly) would be near 25500 kg. That is one ton more than the current MTOW.
However, MTOW says it all : take-off weight. Once in the air, it might be possible to top all tanks.
Probably once in the air, one tone of fuel will have been burnt to take off ! ๐
Rafale comes battle hardened
By Chris Pocock
Paris Air Show >> June 19 2007
[…]
โI have flown foreign evaluation pilots in our two-seaters, who have also flown the Eurofighter and the Gripen. They told me that our man-machine interface and data fusion is better than those aircraft.โ
[…]
Thanks arthuro ! !!
Wowww ! ๐ฎ ๐ฎ ๐ฎ
Where did you find this one ? ๐
Radar and Optronics will define future Rafale
[…]
Some reports suggest that the new OSF-IT will not have an IR channel at all, meaning that Rafale would lose its onboard IRST and FLIR capabilities, relying on the Damocles targeting pod to provide any IR picture. There has been speculation that the loss of the IR is required to make space for the larger AESA radar boxes.
Flight Global just came here and read what French posted here, it seems ! ๐ ๐ ๐
BUT :
The magazine “Air Fan” gave an interesting answer counterdicting FlightGlobal :
If the OSF-IT will not have IRST, that’s because the current Sagem’s IRST is too expensive and lacks reliability (correct me if i misunderstood).
And so, the DGA is just looking for an IRST provider, instead of the Sagem.
The priority is to improve TV camera, and the IRST should come later (retrofit ?).
So, the ‘IRST-less’ OSF-IT is just an interim solution.:)
And so, all this story has nothing to do with the AESA size.:cool:
Additional data :
According to the Book “Rafale, la vรฉritable histoire” by Germain Chambost (former AdA pilot, with good contacts among Dassault’s test pilots), the Rafale A could :
-reach mach1.3 during its very first flight, without afterburners. (the pilot just lighted shortly the burners AFTER and reached mach1.32)
-reach mach1.4 during its first flight with one M88-2 (the other engine still being a F404), still without afterburners (even through mach1).
On the former Dassault’s website (i haven’t checked the new), we could also learn that the Rafale A could reach mach2.0 only with the burner lighted on the F404, while the M88-2 was still full dry.
Of course, though if you ask me i won’t comment, one can add that this was achieved on favorable conditions (no weapons, good weather, low fuel etc).
But it’s still quite interesting, i think.;)
On the 11th, June, a Rafale F2 fired a Mica on a target wich was attacking it from behind, and designated by Link 16.:D
This shoot was conducted by the CEAM, for the technical/operational evaluation of the Mica IR.
http://www.armees.com/Tir-MICA-depuis-un-Rafale-F2-quand-le-chasseur-devient-la-cible,22155.html
This fighter has a good self-defense capability, for sure.:D