Adrian_44I have seen some of the statistics on fighter performances on the F-22A but, one thing I do know is, I saw the first program on the F-22A on the Discovery Network and that program was shown once!! (Damn, I didn’t tape it!) It had a gun camera segment of a F-22 on a Su-27’s six o’clock high position and the Su-27 was maneuvering violently. One could see great deflections of the Su-27’s rudders, stabilators and, ailerons…. yet the F-22A was able to keep the “pipper” on the middle of the Su-27’s fuselage, in what seemed like a leisurely manner! (Now, I have no information on specifics -altitude, speed, etc.) It came on again about six months later and the gun camera footage had been replaced with an animation of the encounter. The “pipper” was all over the place and every few seconds the piper was on the middle fuselage of the Su-27 and the rest of the time spent with the piper was off the Su-27 completely or, on the wings. What was initially shown on the gun camera was very impressive.
Adrian_44Re: Top speed of F14-D with GE engines
Pardon a repeat post, but I cant find where I posted this before. The top speed of an F-14 is alway listed as 2.34 mach.
Several publications stated the specification of Mach 2.34 as being to top speed of the F-14A. The books “The Owner’s Guide for the F-14A” (a PR pamflet from Grumman), “The Pilot’s Report of the F-14A” from Aviation Week, two issues in November 1976, etc. The information here shows the previous information was someone’s dream!
30% more power from the GE engines it would seem that the top speed would have been a lot faster. Or is the airframe limited to this speed.
The newer G.E. engines provided a little more speed but, increace in the ability to climb and, additional range. It could intercept enemy further from the carrier less time. When the addtional speed was not needed, this provided a lot more time at their patrol station.
No and too costly for limited gains. I can not see an AIM-120* becoming a vital part of the F-14A ~40 years old already.
Actually, the F-14D was the first fourth generation fighters that was tested and verified the software of the AIM-120! The AIM-120 was considered redundant because of the Phoenix’s capabilities.
I have been a fan of the F-14 Tomcat since Grumman signed the contract back in 1969. My biggest wish would have been the US Navy to support and developed the F-14 the same way the USAF supported the F-15 and developed and designed the F-15E. I know other factors played a part in the lack of development for the F-14A/B.
The F-14 was a unique and great fighter for its time and combat role.
The F-14 lasted forty-five years as a first line fighters before retirement became a reality. It was an advanced for its time. Sensors such as a telescope controlled by the radar for positive ID, infra-red sensor to assist also.
Adrian_44I saw the program, it was ugly the way the allied aircrew members were subjected to while in captivity. What horrified me the most was the way the US POWs were treated when they got home in the USA! Keeping secrets of what happened to them, no mention made by the US Government, no credit of what they endured as POWs. No mention was made in war crimes tribunal. Just one of the many attrosities former US POWs recieved when they got back to the USA!
Adrian_44Re: How would you rank the worlds 5th genertion fighter designs?
I would not try and rank them at this time. We know so little about the capabilities, their mission or, their avionics.
As we finding out the the two euro-fighters have great capabilities, they only lack stealth. Can they match the F-22 in medium altitudes in WVR but, so far in BVR and high altitudes the F-22 is untouchable! Even when IR or EOTS systems have difficulty detecting the F-22 beyond thirty miles! Well within the AMRAAM’s kill envelope.
We know the mission of the F-22A -a follow on to the F-15s mission -deep power projection, with new added capabilities. The F-22A, Rafale and, Typhoon all have first rate avionics.
I have no knowledge of the F-35’s capabilities in the air to air arena , its is in some respects better than the F-16I or F/A-18, I do know it avionics are more advance than the F-22s! It is a fighter-bomber and air to ground combat is its strength.
The T-50 has little information in the public environment. We do know while in air to air combat it is supposed to be the equal of the F-22. Premiere Putin said in an interview the T-50 will not have the ‘power projection’ role the F-22 does. We know nothing about its avionics which will determine how well it will be in combat.
The J-20 has some pictures out and that is about it. I have seen no information on its performance, mission or avionics.
Inst
YF-23 is more interesting; has more stealth, lower drag, higher payloads, but is less maneuverable (instantaneous maneuverability). A shame it got axed instead of being fully developed.
The problem with the YF-23 was it was far less along in development than the YF-22. Lockeed was able to demonstrate from flight testing marks what the performance figures were valid. It was far enough in development that during flight evaluations it fired a missile! The YF-23 was behind and the USAF was less secure that Northrop would be able to complete the project on time and on budget. Remember the B-2 bomber was far behind schedule and well over budget, so the USAF did not want another project from Northrop that could wind up the same way.
In essence, the USAF lacked confidence in Northrop!!
Adrian_44Re: Royal Navy helicopter deploys on French warship
Interesting, but what is the objective of stationing a UK heli on a French ship? Will we see reverse deployments? And then what?
The entire effort is to gain experience working together. Most military ventures these days are multi-national efforts. The bombing of Libya for example, was a combination of many air forces were working together. No country donates a lot of military forces (less money) but, as a combined force it is far stronger than what Libya could deal with. While the US said no US aircraft flew into Libyan air space. The USA contributed EA-18Gs, the E-2C and, many tomahawk missiles were used first. Other countries contributed land attack missiles. The Rafale and Typhoon saw their first combat.
Adrian_44Re: what kind air force you build
I believe the Iraqis thought their air force was a valid contender.
They believed their own propaganda. It look good on paper but, when your army’s plan to detect land-mines is to have two men, just given a new copy of the Quoran walk about 20ft. in front the cargo trucks, your army needs to value for human life, mostly needs a
new command structure. The is not likely to happen.
Whole lot of maternmization. The value for human life is very poor. When an air force basically has planes that mainly do hit and run attacks, air to air squirminess usually have less than a dozen fighters on each. An air force that looks good is just what the dictator (like Saddam) want. Most coups start with air force bombing to dictator’s home, in that situation, a very good air to ground force is not what is wanted. An air force that is somewhat better that (correspondily) than its army is… just an air force is what is most desired. Air parity is good enough for that country’s needs. An air force which fights mostly in daylight.
AWACS is a key part of any modern, net-centric battle plan.
Keep in mind the Germany and the USSR were each other’s #1 trading partners. Also, Japan and the USA were each other’s #1 trading partners! Both sides feel if/when war starts each feels they will be the winner and the trades will come back.
Just another stupid thread where Tigershark (or whatever other name he’s going by this week) can claim complete superiority of Chinese technology.
Just look at so many at so many weapons of the PLA/AF/N. The J-20, the aegis ships, the CIWS, etc. All look like carbon copies of US’s weapons produced so many years ago.
Adrian_44Re: what kind air force you build
There are so many variables in planning an air force. The history of the country and whether it has had hostilities with one or more of its neighbors.
1) Is the air force supposed to be a fighting military force or will it be a ‘paper tiger’, such as Saddam Hussein’s air force which had Mig. 17, 21, 25 and, -29’s, etc. but, without good pilot training this is all an empty threat.
2) Does your country share a border with a large and powerful neighbor?
Such as Mexico or Canada next to the USA or, like North Korea’s position next to Russia and China. Then your country is fairly immune to the threat of an attack.
3) What is the strategic value of you country’s location?
Is your country in a strategic position such Denmark, Turkey or, Malaysia. Places in which some other country might covet.
4) What part in your country’s defense will your air force play?
Will it be like Switzerland, upon a airspace violation or intrusion, interceptors will be launched. Are they go up to identify the intruder to get the ID information and the diplomats will settle this problem. Or like Israel, North Korea which will challenge the intruder and if required will shoot it down.
5) When your country is attacking an enemy, will the AF be traveling distance? Will your country have a navy to help assist in a air attack over a distance? What about the need for AWACS or aerial tanker support?
6) Will your AF have a search and rescue, similar to many country’s coast guard near water areas or a rescue service like the USAF’s. Or a air rescue service throughout the country?
Adrian_44Re: Feability of using fast attack craft to replace some of the functions of cruiser
One thing the large ships have are significant assistance from helicopters, large ECM/ECCM suits, the use of SAMs. Or a few dozen Asters, Standard, etc. missiles will devastate a fleet of small boats attacking large a vessels. These weapons they will put a serious dent in attacking small once they get into range of detection.
Coastlines such as Norway, Malaysia with hundreds of small islands of the coast, can be very protective, for attacks by small boats. Other places such as the coastline similar to the western US coastline and large areas of the eastern Russian/Chinese coastline, will offers little protection.
Adrian_44Re: Swiss Technical report LEAKED!
Uhu ? If the document is genuine, can someone explain me why it is written in English ?
I don’t know, I would not buy a car if the owner’s manual was not in english. I don’t mind if each page in english is also accompanied by pages in foreign languages.
ACtually, I think the pilot workload bit corroborates what the French themselves said once – there is so much infor coming through all the fused sensors that it can actually overload the pilots. They were even looking to have more twin seaters for this reason iirc.
But adequate training and acclimitization might have overcome this issue.
The French AF worked with American AF in cockpit design for the Rafale and the F-22A! Training the pilot to process all the information is a big help. I do know with the F-22A made some software changes to reduce the speed of which the information is presented. If the pilot is working on one problem then, the computer handles secondary information!! It then informs the pilot when his workload is reduced of the secondary problem. The program is designated the “SIERE” (Synthisized Emersion Research Envirement).
The computer measures the pilot’s heart rate & blood pressure, eyes blinking rate & duration, EKG, EKG, etc. A total of sixteen different body functions to determine the pilot’s mental workload!!!
One thing that amazed me was that the F/A-18C/D was ranked as high as it was compared to the ‘eurofighters’ in certain parameters, such as WVR combat! I assumed…. that all the euro-fighters would swamp the F/A-18C/D.
From what I have observed, the Swiss AF only really needs an NFA with air policing and DCA capabilities. In the past when some country violates Switzerland’s airspace, the SAF interceptors, and identifies the intruder. Then the diplomats handle the problem.
Yes Switzerland does get its airspace violated, sometimes. I have seen maps of NATO aircraft that penetrated Swizz airspace and AWACS to cover operations/air exercises going on in Switzerland.
(The top picture is the Rafales cockpit and lower picture is from the F-22A.)
Adrian_44Re: Su-27-the-best-fighter-in-the-world
I also would like to read this in english. At first glance the cover looks like a brochure similar to brochures from McDonnell Douglas -F/A-18, or the combination Lockheed Martin/General Dynamics for the F-16.
I just don’t believe the statement of the Su-27/35 being the best fighters in the world.
Adrian_44Re: F35 Less expensive than Typhoon : Italy
WOW… that is great news for anyone who can see to fold up the F-35 program would be a great disaster than the USN’s termination of the A-12 Avenger II.
If the F-35C is indeed as cheap as stated (or anywhere close), then that also means the F-35C is cheaper than the (at $85M) EA-18G Grizzly -formerly known as the ‘Growler’!
I wonder what financial incentives the USA is giving Italy? Will Italy get a foreign military loan (fml) for 2% or less? Would they do what Israel did when they received a fml of which they did not need immediately. Israel invested the loan and when they needed the money (seven years later), Israel cashed in the investment. They had doubled their investment! They had enough money to pay back the USA the face value of the loan and, had an equal amount of money from their investment.
One area the F-35 has over its competitors or predecessors is that most all the avionics are designed to last the lifespan of the plane, without maintenance! This is real part of the cost of any plane. Just part of many features to greatly reduce the cost of maintenance of the F-35. I do know the the maintenance of the F-35 is one-tenth the cost of the F-22A’s maintenance!!
Adrian_44Re: Is the UK getting cold feet?
It is so sad after all the carrier trails this change is needed. Land based and carrier trails AND this problem sneaked or overlooked??
To bad Grumman is no longer in the carrier aircraft business! 😡
Adrian_44Re: Super Hornet
Has any study been carried out if F-15E could be adopted for carrier ops ?
Yes and also studies done on the F-16N to replace the YF-17/FA-18. The USAF wanted pay the Navy for, the USAF’s pride had been damaged operating former Navy designed aircraft! The USN’s A-3D Skywarrior/B-66, A-7 Corsair II and, the F-4H Phantom II! The USAF forcing the Navy to accept the F-15N and F-16N would a good start for payback!! Posted is a sketch showing the comparison between the F-16A and the F-16N. The F-16A is shown in dotted lines.
Cause the slow speed handeling of the F-15E are less than good.
Add to the many other things the bring back load, would have to be small.
Well, in any case the USN is stuck with Hornet for the foreseeable future
The US Navy screwed itself up back when they have delays, ridiculous specs and major/huge cost over runs for the A-12 Avenger II carrier-borne stealth bomber back in 1991 (a mini B-2 bomber). The Navy was out of money and along with Cold War being over -the peace dividends. That led to the phasing out of the A-6 Intruder. The money lost meant there would be no medium bomber. The F/A-18 was would have to suffice in the role of bomber. One half the range and ordnance load. Money was so tight the A-6 bomber and tanker variant and, the S-3 Viking were phased out. Now, US carriers have lost
The A-12 was such a monetary sink-hole large enough to make one to wonder what all the fuss about concerning the F-35s? The Australians and now the USN are putting off the F-35 and will acquire more Super Hornets.
Obligatory thank you for the URL for the ‘secret projects’. Adrian
Adrian_44Re: Chances of US bombers penetrating Soviet defenses in the 1960’s – 85 percent
That’s a commonly-accepted version of the situation at that time, but is incorrect.
Thank you for the correction. This is the sort of details most civilians do not encounter! -Adrian
Adrian_44Re: Pakistan Air Force Thread 4, the moa has landed!
The first thing I think of when I see a claim such as this is… “what are the rules of engagement?”
I remember Cope India 2004 or, about two years ago when the PLAAF sent some Su-27s to Turkey for air exercises. I later read the F-4 Phantom II had kills on the Su-27! The are many such exercises and without the RoEs the scores are meaningless.
I have seen pretty pictures of a F-5 Freedom Fighter sitting on an F-22A’s “six o’clock”. Looking at one photo of the HUD of the F-5, I could see the airspeed was around 360kts, altitude was a little over 15,000ft. and, the F-5 was pulling 5½Gs! Now the photo of the F-5 sitting on the tail of the F-22A made sense!!!
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