RE: genetic engineering

In reality the difference is that now the farmer gets just the semen from the ram… with GE he will get the ram.
Obviously the ram will have to mature before it can be used for breeding stock but at least the farmer will know exactly what he is getting.

Your wrong Garry, whether you have semen of a ram or an actual ram, either way its not genetically altered. Yes its possible to replicate changes that occure natuarally with GE, its also possible to go far beyond what can be done with natural breeding. Sofar, we havent experienced a breakdown resulting from a GE mistake, but its very possible. Regretably I cant back up the example I brought up about the GE salman with more specifac info about the disaster that could be wrought with its breeding with natural species, it was just something I came across a year or two ago.

Introducing a GE modified member to the rest of the population will not give all of the members of that population the new changed genes… patting a dog doesn’t transfer dog genes to your hand.
If the introduced GE member with some genetic error or weakness is allowed to reproduce then its offspring have something to worry about but the other members of the lifeform type are quite safe. If the error is fatal then the death of the individual will stop the bad genes propagating…

Your wrong Garry, if you breed a pony with a thoroughbred, that ponys genetics will effect all its decendants, its mathematically predictable just howmuch change it will do. With GE your completely splicing out a section of gene and puting in something different. As is seen sofar, species are able to withstand these abrupt change that have been tried sofar. What you cant seem to understand is that GE doesnt wash out, its a permant part of the Species. If things go bad say with the GE corn that has been found in europe, theres nothing original to go back to because its not isolated, its being intermixed. With natural mistakes you can just breed out problems as you say. With GE its more that dominant and resesive naturally occuring GE, its something entirely new that has changed the species thats out of the control of normal mutations.

Im not an expert on this subject, I wouldnt even say Im knowedgeable. But your clearly blind to what the basics of what GE is and what it can do. I have a feeling youll respond the same as you have these last few posts of yours. In that case Ill have to live this dicuscian as it stands.

RE: genetic engineering

Garry- Your hooked on this idea that GE plant/animals will create an entirely different breed that cant pollenate/interbreed with normal stock. Your wrong, as I mentioned, GE corn has been found to be mixed in european corn where GE is not used. Yes GE animals can wipe out an entire spieces. GE salman are being farmed in pools inland, and their requesting that they be allowed to grow them in pens in the sea. Its said that one fertalized salman if it were to escape form the pen could wipe out the entire species of salman, especially because the GE grow large faster which would make them a more attractive mate. What exactly the limit that a scientist can alter a species without either causeing weakness to the breed or unforseen genetic errors that could destroy the breed itself? You say you dont mind a human being GE, can you give me some kind of percentage as to howmuch genetic alteration can be done to stay safe? Is their a limit?

RE: genetic engineering

Garry- Garry I really cant think of anyway to answere your post. You seem perfectly assured that genetists can freely alter genes in plants and animals all they want and it will only result in improved genes and an overall improved breeds. Your simply wrong about GE interbreeding with normal stock not effecting the regular stock. What its going to take is a catastrafe to a foodcrop or livestalk species (not breed mind you, the entire species) and then society will say, oh yeah, this GE bussiness is powerfull and dangerous if used improperly, maybe we should have kept this research where research belongs, in a lab. It shouldnt take this to long to happen though as about 99% of biotec scientists and the farmers who buy from them are in agreement with you. The danger is on my side of the fence also though, alot of anti GE activists such as in greenpeace are basically a bunch of collage flunkies who have no idea at all what GE is, and have targeted the consumers with the danger to consumption scare. So all this this “crying wolf” has only cemented public indiference.

RE: genetic engineering

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-08-02 AT 07:58 PM (GMT)]Garry,your absolutely right about humans becoming weaker due to the absence of natural selection. But why dont you attribute the same to plants and animals? The crops and livestalk we use has been bred for thousands of years for their stength of growth, health, resistance to disease and pestulance. Now were artificialy altering genes, how can you say that a super tomatoe wont permananyly alter existing plant breeds. Thats what the whole contriversy lately is is that genetically altered crops are pollinating nearby natural crops. In europe theyve found that their corn has been intermixed with the GE(genetically engineered) corn. If you had a dog with a skin problem, would you artificialy alter in genes so it wont have that problem anymore? If you wanted to improve something in your child like make him tall or have better eye sight, would you alter the genes so that your child would have these propertys? You dont think that these gene changes are permanant and that the interbreeding of these changes with normal stock are permant? As Ive tried to say, GE gives power to patch in any kind of genes you want into a plant/animal, there is no barrier to mistakes that natural breeding has to protect from dangerous mistakes. djcross, you think that the market is self reguating? Its regulated by one thing, thats money. Breeders have said for years that were loosing the genetic diversity nessesary to draw apon if standard breeds we rely on fail. It took thousands of years to bring these qualitys out. Do you think a breeder can take a mut, and in a few generations create a poodle? All the dog breeds in the world are made from only about 30 genetic mutations. Peóple who raise livestalk have shown theyre willing to do any kind of change at all to improve yields in their animals. Will the original breed still exist if genetic changes falter and wreak disater to a breed or will those genetic changes have intermixed already to the entire line of breeding stock and make return to nature impossible?