monguDoesn’t mean it hasn’t had the Qantas livery on it!
monguAre those planes leased from Qantas?
They have the same basic scheme.
monguWhat does the new airline do – is it a low cost offshoot, like with Qantas and Australian Airlines?
monguIvan.
I basically agree with you.
But consider this: Sometimes, the companies offering Ministers millions for tax deals – Well, they sometimes have little choice. In the Zambian privatisation process, the ZPA (Zambian Privatisation Authority) was headed by Francis Kaunda, the son of the ex-President Kenneth Kaunda.
His position was that he wasn’t really bothered which deal was best for the Country, he was more concerned by how much was diverted to him personally.
So…you’re a bidder. What do you do? If you don’t give Kaunda a few million, you will lose.
So you have to bribe a Minister just for him to do his job. Gosh, aren’t these Companies so wrong!!
As a footnote, the most serious bidder (Anglo American) pulled out citing excessive irregularities and the eventual main winner has messed everything up. They should not have been awarded the sale, but they were more amenable to paying off Kaunda.
monguIvan.
I basically agree with you.
But consider this: Sometimes, the companies offering Ministers millions for tax deals – Well, they sometimes have little choice. In the Zambian privatisation process, the ZPA (Zambian Privatisation Authority) was headed by Francis Kaunda, the son of the ex-President Kenneth Kaunda.
His position was that he wasn’t really bothered which deal was best for the Country, he was more concerned by how much was diverted to him personally.
So…you’re a bidder. What do you do? If you don’t give Kaunda a few million, you will lose.
So you have to bribe a Minister just for him to do his job. Gosh, aren’t these Companies so wrong!!
As a footnote, the most serious bidder (Anglo American) pulled out citing excessive irregularities and the eventual main winner has messed everything up. They should not have been awarded the sale, but they were more amenable to paying off Kaunda.
monguOriginally posted by GarryB
“Do you still blame the Western companies for all these problems?”All, no, I never said they were responsible for all of the problems.
Considering most of the countries they take the wealth out of, very little is put back into the communities it is taken from don’t you think perhaps the locals might use force to get bribes to spread the wealth around?
Not every country has personal greed in their culture yet, sometimes communal needs should be recognised. I see it took the women of a village to threaten to take off all of their clothes and wander around completely naked before Shell would give in to their demands that some money be used to build schools and hospitals nearby. (It worked because in the local culture such an act would be outragous and very embarrassing for the largely male local workforce).
With it spending billions every year to explore new cleaner fuels and on pr to look like a nice friendly company, you’d think they’d have done it on their own initiative…
How many companies put wealth back into YOUR community? Some will, but most won’t. That’s why companies pay taxes. And in Zambia, corporate tax is very high (nearly half the profits).
Also, in this particular case, the Mine funds the local school, funds the local road repair programme, runs a few community facilities (bowling club, tennis club, golf club). As a freebie, all local workers are entitled to (and receive) subsidised housing as well as toilet paper and a nig sack of meal. And a final salary pension.
The reason, is that without these “perks” the workers would not be able to work effectively. They are paid enough to buy what they need, but the economy is too inefficient. You actually can’t buy toilet paper in a town of 100,000 people unless a local shop finds a “bargain” purchase.
Starting to appreciate how “grey” the situation is?
Hence the fundamental unfairness of all and sundry blaming “greedy” or “exploitative” Western companies all the time. Of course, they can’t REALLY have a go at the government – all the ministers are black so are therefore beyond reproach!! I’m not being sarcastic (much) about that. It’s a deportation offence to criticise the government in Zambia.
monguOriginally posted by GarryB
“Do you still blame the Western companies for all these problems?”All, no, I never said they were responsible for all of the problems.
Considering most of the countries they take the wealth out of, very little is put back into the communities it is taken from don’t you think perhaps the locals might use force to get bribes to spread the wealth around?
Not every country has personal greed in their culture yet, sometimes communal needs should be recognised. I see it took the women of a village to threaten to take off all of their clothes and wander around completely naked before Shell would give in to their demands that some money be used to build schools and hospitals nearby. (It worked because in the local culture such an act would be outragous and very embarrassing for the largely male local workforce).
With it spending billions every year to explore new cleaner fuels and on pr to look like a nice friendly company, you’d think they’d have done it on their own initiative…
How many companies put wealth back into YOUR community? Some will, but most won’t. That’s why companies pay taxes. And in Zambia, corporate tax is very high (nearly half the profits).
Also, in this particular case, the Mine funds the local school, funds the local road repair programme, runs a few community facilities (bowling club, tennis club, golf club). As a freebie, all local workers are entitled to (and receive) subsidised housing as well as toilet paper and a nig sack of meal. And a final salary pension.
The reason, is that without these “perks” the workers would not be able to work effectively. They are paid enough to buy what they need, but the economy is too inefficient. You actually can’t buy toilet paper in a town of 100,000 people unless a local shop finds a “bargain” purchase.
Starting to appreciate how “grey” the situation is?
Hence the fundamental unfairness of all and sundry blaming “greedy” or “exploitative” Western companies all the time. Of course, they can’t REALLY have a go at the government – all the ministers are black so are therefore beyond reproach!! I’m not being sarcastic (much) about that. It’s a deportation offence to criticise the government in Zambia.
monguBut didn’t the US impose tarrifs on Australian steel?
I would seriously expect some retaliation. Surely the local steel companies will lobby Howard.
Garry, although I don’t know much about NZ politics, it does seem that the Greenies annoyed the US. Didn’t Helen Clark have to share power with the Greens for a while? I guess that’s where the annoyance came from (ie for the US, Greens=Commies=Terrorists=Muslims)
monguBut didn’t the US impose tarrifs on Australian steel?
I would seriously expect some retaliation. Surely the local steel companies will lobby Howard.
Garry, although I don’t know much about NZ politics, it does seem that the Greenies annoyed the US. Didn’t Helen Clark have to share power with the Greens for a while? I guess that’s where the annoyance came from (ie for the US, Greens=Commies=Terrorists=Muslims)
monguCalm Down!
monguYes, the Circle Line does the journey with no changes.
monguThe latest is that The Grinning Beard has said he will ask Tony Blair and Patricia Hewitt to intervene on his behalf, to “sort out” BA.
monguNo, they’re still quite solid financially. They’re not going bust in a hurry.
I’m sure Ryanair will manage to make a witty poster about it though, probably featuring Lord Kitchener!
monguWell, the Gatty express is from memory a lot cheaper than the Thiefrow express, and it is something like twice the distance as well!
monguYes, I agree. The rights of the worker are important.
But we’re back to square one – its up to the governments of these countries to protect its people, not Nike or Gap.
Governmental failure is the main reason for all the problems. Let me give you a real world example:
A copper mine is privatised in Zambia. It spent 20 years loosing money under Government ownership, because the state took cash out of the business and didn’t invest any back.
Anyway, said mine is now in private hands. The new owners mine the copper in the form of “crushed” ore, that is lots of small boulders. It needs to be concentrated (finely crushed) as the next step in the process. So the boulders are loaded into lorries and driven about 20 miles to a concentrator owned by another company. The mine does have a private railway line, but all the locos are broken (they were broken when the new company bought the mine and they haven’t fixed them yet). Every four or five miles on the road, though, there are armed police roadblocks. Around the time of the month the police get paid, the roadblocks expand in number. They stop the lorries and fabricate reasons for fines to be paid. The sort of “oh look, your rear offside indicator lamp is broken” accompanied by the sound of a boot smashing the lamp.
At least, that happened at first. Now, they just ask for cash outright.
So….privately owned, Western managed company ends up paying hundred of thousands of $’s a year in bribes to the police, otherwise they would suffer big production losses. A bright manager from the UK decides to buy the police a few portakabins, well outfitted, as a “gift”. They provide shelter from sun and rain and are well received. So the bribe payouts are less now; the police even wave through the white managers and their families, because they know what side their bread is buttered.
So…government can’t afford to pay policemen, so they get money in other ways. Same bankrupt government thinks nothing of ministers mysteriously having millions, or Presidents flying around on a Gulfstream V. Do you still blame the Western companies for all these problems?
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