No, the UK never agreed to the EU.

We had a referendum asking the people if they wanted to join the “Common Market” which later became the EEC. This has turned into the EU as it is today, which nobody voted for except indirectly.

Keltic, you cannot seriously believe that British democracy is as good/bad as the EU? We don’t vote for ministers, no. They are appointed by the Prime Minister. But….this is the clincher….every one of them is elected to be an MP. The only power the PM has is to pick people from a pool of people, who are all elected.

Originally posted by keltic
Seats are supposed to be leather. Longhauls seats aren´t like that. However I am more impressed at BA new seats in all classes. Real class¡

They are certainly not real leather! They are covered in grey plastic sheets which slide on over the seats.

By the way, I do think that BA seats are far superior for short haul flights than long haul ones! Their A319’s, 757’s and 737’s have better leg room and comfier seats than their B744’s and B772’s! Very strange decision by BA. It’s as if…give passengers rubbish seats but give them a PTV and all is forgiven. Not by me!

That’s right, they’re installing electricity next year. Yippee!

All the arguments above are quite valid. Correct, the Americans were not good friends to the UK at certain times. Then, neither were the Europeans.

De Gaulle’s “Non” is still remembered deeply. I think the sentiment the American’s expressed, that France was ungrateful, was well understood in the UK. It applied equally to the French attitude to the UK.

The point is, all the other Europeans are locked into the EU. We are not, and the central issue is that we now have a choice.

I stand by comments about the “evil” EU. Okay, I know I am mis-using the word evil, because it isn’t especially so. But the EU dislikes democracy. How can you argue against that? It comes back to the De Gaulle issue – the UK was nearly annihilitated in WW2, fighting the Nazis. I don’t want to push that point too much, because I believe in modesty and I also believe tens of millions of Europeans suffered terribly as well as the British.

So now, our neighbours were free and democratic. Then you go and invent the EU, and surrender democracy. Why??

Then, to make the insult worse, the EU tried to interfere in the UK. Our bananas must be a certain curvature. Our vegetables can only be sold in metric weights. Okay, this is standardisation and even though it is petty sometimes, I can see the big picture and I accept it for the greater good.

But….common foreign policy, tax harmonisation, single currency…that is way too far. Who controls all this? Unelected officials. Okay, the member states themselves are democratic, so the lack of democracy in the EU is irrelevant. That was Keltic’s argument, I think. But as the EU takes over more and more powers from the member states, this argument is less and less convincing. Anyway, the control the members have over the EU mostly comes from Inter-Governmental Conferences. Politicians jockeying for the best jobs when they reture for national politics!!!

It makes a mockery of the true meaning of the word “democracy”.

Oh – Keltic – if the EU is serious about competing wth the US, it must adopt English as the No. 2 language for all countries. The policy of the Icelanders is interesting. They used to learn Icelandic in school, as the national language (obviously). The No. 2 was Danish, I think. English was No. 3. Then, the government shifted English to No. 2 and most Icelanders you meet speak very good English indeed. It has helped their country enormously! So in the UK, we have No. 1 and No. 2 as the same language.

I quite like LH, except for the grey plastic seats in economy, at least in their A319/A320’s which are the only types I’ve been on.

I can just imagine all those big lads in shorts, making the seats sticky with sweat on the flight before mine 😮

You may be right about Britian having lost the imperial icon, Keltic. Maybe we need another icon. But the EU is not it! The EU is against all ideals of freedom, democracy, open markets which we stand for. The fact that our “neighbours” are so keen to be part of the EU means they do not value these things like we do. Well, I know a country which DOES value them like we do: America.

Hence, I am an Atlanticist, transatlantic differences of opinion not withstanding.

Gefore, African Unity = Black Leaders are Gods who must be Saved, Black People are scum to be trod on

At least that is the Mbeki/Mugabe/Obasanjo interpretation.