Eagle can you clarify what you mean? Are you saying the F-4 isn’t really gone or as of right now it can be considered gone? I’m confused.

Lovely picture you got by the way…..where did you find it? I thought it was quite funny.

I’m saying the F-4 is still in widespread service, even in the US its still part of air operations.
The pic is from my F-14 folder. 😀 I dont remember where I found it.

Climb performance is dependant on lift-drag ratio and thrust-weight ratio, two fields were Lightning clearly looses against both MiG and Typhoon (against the latter, with wide margin). An elderly man, however, should not be disturbed with such beancounting in his mid 70s.

Well the Lightning actually has better climb performance than an F-15 which says a lot.
There are other areas where the Lightning didnt shine like carrying weapons over distance. 🙂

I always found that the arrangement of external weapons is somehow cumbersome on the F-14. Although the fuselage stations are great for Sparrow missiles, the overall flexibility was limited. For example no large drop tanks and limited number of pylons. The Phantom could go with 3 Sparrow, 4 Sidewinder, 3 drop tanks, 4 cluster bombs and 1 ECM pod. Performance would be, of course, ugly with such a load out.

Thats what I really like about the Tomcat. It can carry huge stores without much drag. The reason no large drop tanks are possible is probably because none are required.
With a little rework, the F-14 would be just as flexible as the F-4 regarding A/G stores but that wasnt needed (A-6). Theres enough space under the fuselage for 12 500lb bombs at least.

All this talk about how the latest Russian SAMs are able to shoot down the latest US stealth fighters is somewhat funny I think. All of a sudden the Raptor is crap because it cant fly directly over a S-400, that it needs extensive mission planning to survive.
So what. Try that with a MiG-29 and all your mission planning will not help you. If the F-22 is useless because it can be detected at x miles, what about the Su-30 that can be detected at x*10 miles?
If stealth is degraded over time, it surely hurts the survivability of F-22/F-35. But it turns Fulcrums, Flankers, Vipers and Eagles (:( ) into flying coffins.

The way I see it: the USAF got the F-15, the USN the F-14 to replace the F-4. Both are superior in every way so no one had to cry for lost capabilities. Plus the Phantom isnt really gone till now.

Maybe the Marines felt different. 😉

One would think there would be some kind of fly-off / competition between various jet makers.

Aussies dont need to do that. They are procurement experts.

sorry couldnt resist. 🙂

TOPIC #3.) Why wasn’t the F-15C upgraded with the HTS instead of the block 50/52 after the retirement if the F-4G? Wouldn’t this have provided a more reasonable allocation of capabilities as well as a more effective SEAD platform? It just seems like the Eagle would be a natural HARM shooter, especially with the diminished air threat faced in current conflicts. Example- look at what the IAF is doing with their upgraded Eagles to make them more multirole-usefull.

McDD first (in 1986) offered a modified two seat F-15 for the SEAD role to replace the F-4G. It was supposed to carry the equipment in an undernose fairing similar to the F-4G. Cost too much apparently.
In 1994, modified F-15Cs were offered. They were rated higher than modified F-16s but were also more expensive. So the inferior but cheaper F-16CJ was chosen.
Somewhat strange considering the F-16 Block 50 were new built jets and the F-15C just upgrades.

And reduces cruise drag a bit. As I said, the Tornado is a very small aircraft and was designed (don’t knoe why) to carry everythink external.

Small? I would say the Tornado is quite a big fighter or bomber or whatever. Whats interesting though is how they managed to design a 14 ton airframe that carries only 5.5 (?) tons of fuel and no ecm, chaff or flares but engines that would better suit a 10 ton class fighter.

The longer ADV fuselage resulted also in an increased wing root sweep which reduces drag.