It was China Airlines that flipped a Boeing 747 and it survived with all souls
It was China Airlines that completely flipped a Boeing 747 and it survived with all souls on board. Amazing but true,
A lot of coffee and other Chinese food would have made passengers look as if they’d been through a dumpster but otherwise they survived. Probably they still wake up at night :eek::eek::eek:
Here is part 1 of that horror – you’l find the rest if you search using Google
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_uUgOfBkDM
I’d say it put a whole new meaning on “Would you like your coffee in you or on you?” or “How do you wear your coffee white or brown?”
Says something for Boeing aircraft though.:)
This is the WSJ (Japanese edition)
This is the WSJ (Japanese edition)
“….The revelation came at an awkward time for the Japanese carrier, just hours after the first of the new-generation Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliner jets on which it has built its future strategy finally landed in Tokyo on Wednesday, more than three years behind schedule.
The celebratory mood was quickly over as Shin Nagase, a senior executive vice president at ANA, apologized and bowed deeply in front of TV cameras at a news conference to apologize for the trouble caused by the incident, which took place Sept. 6….
….ANA said a 38-year-old co-pilot likely hit the rudder trim controls by mistake instead of pushing the door unlock button to let the captain in after he stepped out of the cockpit to go to the restroom.
Computer graphic images compiled by the safety board showed the plane turning almost upside down, but many passengers on board apparently did not realize the gravity of the situation, since it was already dark outside when the incident occurred at around 10:50 pm.
Investigators said the co-pilot was quite experienced, with more than 35,000 total hours of flight time. Nonetheless, according to investigators, the slip-up cause a roll and descent so violent that the jet exceeded certain maximum allowable speeds and also was subjected to stresses beyond its acceleration limits….”
You may want to look at these graphics as they are quite interesting to say the least –
http://www.mlit.go.jp/jtsb/video/JA16AN-movie1.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCm5kW4jzx0&
Boeing more than likely test flew the 787 to these or more severe limits if not ANA may do it for them unconsciously of course. Well customer feedback to Boeing takes all forms and incidents.;)
Boeing orders up to 27 September 2011
Boeing orders up to 27 September 2011
Source: http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm
* against customer in the charts below indicates updates since last post with charts.
Changes since last update: 46 new orders (Utair 40 737s and Unidentified Customer(s) six 777s). Identified Virgin Australia Airlines order for two 737s previously listed as unidentified
Charts : Google Docs
Click on each chart to enlarge
When is the BA A380 due in to service – I book on that?
When is the BA A380 due in to service? – I shall book on that?:D
S.d the logs true or false when will ANA announce their flight scheds. on the 787
S.d the logs true or false that’s the problem and conscience of the people that fill them in.
Instead when will ANA announce their flight scheds. on the 787 or are they already somewhere?:cool:
And as recently returned from India KabirT (good holiday and married/nearly married I hope;)) says “stop the squabbles”.
And more to the point who gets the next 787?:D
No imagination just reading the posts above
Hi Lance
No imagination just reading the posts above one in particular.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1806832&postcount=94
Nor is there anything pompous about auditors technical or financial provided they get their hands dirty along with the teams or individuals they are auditing.
Likewise the reports must be productive and quality enhancing not just a humane gun to shed people. That is my future hope that I can bridge some of the voids between clean suits (the PMs and managers complained about) and hands on people in aviation/aerospace and save jobs rather than kill them off.
Trackers, audit trails, logs are all there because employers, flight crews and engineers have all previously agreed that they must be there and IMO they should not be side lined or falsified by anyone.
Too often technical people go ape when asked to document or use their existing documentation to contribute to enhancements which may make their lives at work more interesting or productive and move things forward.
I am a tech (bean counters are also techs) and will always be that and I always documented so that should anything have happened to me it wasn’t difficult for someone else to step in (I fondly termed it as often “killing off my assignment” and moving forward to the next interesting challenge)
Hi Lance and Olivier
Hi Lance and Oliver
I simply found most of the material interesting but often scattered all over the thread for the same Aircraft.:)
All I have done is provide IMO a suggestion of keeping it all together per aircraft that way everyone can see how each build progresses.
No different to Sandy;) ahem;) , Giblets, Mr Totty and MSR777
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1804075&postcount=128
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1804224&postcount=129
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1803964&postcount=126
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1806777&postcount=139
Of course Oliver you are entitled to do what you wish.;)
Horror of horrors do I hear what I thought were ethical engineers saying what ….
Horror of horrors do I hear what I thought were ethical engineers saying what I had hoped I’d never hear in my lifetime.
No I am not going to reply the individual member but I am stunned that what is a respectable form of keeping verifiable paper (including visible authorised/accounted for alterations to errors) and/or electronic trackers are being so frowned on.
Am I hearing that pressures of work are making good engineers cut corners so they don’t have time to leave a trace of verifiability. Oh ho.y sh.t!:eek: Therefore when Joe Public gets on some flights he/she now faces flying on an aircraft with an unverifiable/’doctored’ engineering log or no log at all.Nice.:mad:
No wonder employers are beefing up the PMs and turds of managers and I think it may also lead to an increase of more electronic/systems tracking and CCTV coverage of work being carried out. Extremely sad but it seems like some engineers along with their employers are bringing the heavy hand of big brother into the picture far more than needed by lack of appreciation of the vital technical roles played by service engineers.;)
I think the word audit (technical or financial) isn’t a death sentence – audit when carried out internally is a way of both sides understanding the need for quality and honesty and the consumer or customer getting the fairest deal at a realistic price.
Stop worrying or swearing and if any of you that are good aircraft engineers just do the job the employer and public expect you to do ethically and honestly without any need for falsifying records.;) Easy peasy and the clean suits will stay away.:D
If the Dreamliner is to stand a chance of rapid productive forward development through the technical feedback from customers during usage, it is only honesty on all those directly involved in its technical operation that matters.;)
A few posts back we had comments about would anyone report an impact collision with the composite fuselage or wings by ground handling trucks/ramps. These vehicles or equipment have/can have impact collision sensors that relay automatically on impact to a central monitoring engineering station along with miniature CCTV feeds ensuring a further check be made following a suspected/identifiable collision/impact.
Both of you Amiga500 and Flightmech – let the Flight Crew know
Both of you Amiga500 and Flightmech – let the Flight Crew know through any ethical means if it’s something you have been asked to do by your company as they should also be altering their pattern of operation if it’s a workaround you have effected.
The management chain may never grasp it quick enough to help the flight crew and souls on board.
It’s all about strengths and weaknesses of the men/women and machine and knowing and understanding them all is the flight crews responsibility and not making expectations on the machine if it it’s not in normal state of operation.It can still fly but with knowledge of deficits.
Flight engineer would have been your contact but alas he /she is long gone.
Even if its a nudge, nudge and whisper to a pilot and/or a secure link by ground wire to cockpit – tell them then the balls is in their court. You have done your bit. Air France Concorde tragedy – Captain Marti could have said “Non” – fuel overload, spare aircraft (hurriedly put in to service), or asked for a further delay to lighten the fuel load – but was pushed by management pressure, customer pressure and marketing. He sadly didn’t.:o Air Transat A330 (engineer made huge Boo Boo [workaround of his/her own] and thanks to incredible skill in the cockpit it made it to safety)
Document, document and keep records (your diary to start with if permitted) in simple uncomplicated language and numbers and in 99% of cases it shouldn’t hang you but will make you accountable.:) That’s not a bad thing is it?:)
A delayed flight may seem the end of the world to some but to you and all those who care it may prevent loss of lives and any decent airline will be happy eventually that you did an ethical job.:)
You may upset some (or get a temporary rollicking) from those that haven’t a clue (and are bluffing their way through [clean suits] not getting their hands dirty) but that’s all part of being forthright and accurate to the point of your knowledge and skill.;)
You are doing well just keep ethical and true records
Glad someone is as confused as I am?:confused:
Flightmech
Same comment http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1806843&postcount=96 🙂
You are doing well just keep ethical and true records. This ain’t yet an undeveloped and uncaring country is it?;)
WTF!?!
Sorry – way too busy actually working to waste my time maintaining some stupid needless tracker.
The place is coming down in project managers with their bloody pointless trackers – pretty much one of the big reasons so many projects are going wrong – they think they can “manage” the unknown. Idiots.
Hi Amiga500
Sod the PM’s or any other managerial ‘turds’ please take my suggestion and keep your records clean and straight and any amendments simply alter legibly.
No decent auditor (whether technical or financial) will fail you if your amendments are verifiable and you have done the best job given the tools and time and reported any risks that are within your remit to forsee with any company enforced workarounds.
Simple rule – single narrow line through any item in written records needing altered, make alteration relating legibly to original entry, initial and date leaving both old and corrected entry visible. Absolutely taboo is liquid paper followed by photocopying which does not always show traces of liquid paper.
Electronic systems should have a verifiable audit trail and access controls so you should always have to ask another person to help you make the alteration or login with a higher authority password than your normal one.
If you are doing your job ethically and professionally why worry in not keeping accurate job records. Which I am sure you are:)
Many have been moaning about the deliver delays 3-4 years for the Dreamliner.
It has been the paragraph in my post that you have highlighted where IMO Boeing have taken time with a new development including many of the items I have listed.These take time. It is by sticking to these principles that we will see this recession through. Case in point India is getting into trouble with IA [over forecasting and maybe incorrect accounting] and Chinese accounting isn’t as yet globally comprehensible so Japan seems a fortress of quality and loyalty for Boeing.
No I had no doubts about the flight:) but if you look at the Airbus A380 thread which includes every little change I did not wish to report every movement and was glad Talltower did.
There are many sceptics on this thread who show gut feeling that she will go the way of the Comet and fall out of the skies. I wait on customer usage reports.
Which is why this Dreamliner deal is BIG for Boeing and Japan
Which is why this Dreamliner deal is BIG for Boeing and Japan.
I remain optimistic and it’s the ancient but true Tortoise and Hare tale.
Airbus innovative fast out of the starting gates – selling volume in many markets.
Boeing out of original starting gates (way back in time), slower to innovate but holding loyal markets.
Let’s see the next 10 years especially once the economic recession and it’s long aftermath (this one will be very long with years of poor quality components, products, service, etc) lifts.
This is my 6th recession (2-3 more than you as I was in the IT/IS business and we took a few more dives than Joe Public) and the aftermath of each one was bad. This one will be ultra bad as it is so prolonged.
Any of you out there that contribute to manufacture (vital) or extracting/producing original compounds, R&D, quality testing, accounting and finance, maintain and repair, re-furbish, and provide customer service, please, please go that ‘extra mile’ in dedication (yes an old fashioned word) and we will pull through and out of this recession. Please keep stringent electronic records and written records avoiding using liquid paper [delete with a line through and initial and date so change is visible].When things slip or cheating is evident – please go to your management and if they don’t do anything think hard of the next best course of action.
In addition please bring the younger generations into line with integrity and dedication to work including punctuality, and loyalty they are the starting blocks for a safer developed world. Never mind the other errant countries just please do your bit as if you buy ‘crap’ from them you can by your own efforts identify the faults and try to source some alternative ethical suppliers
Short cuts with safety or durability can and will cost lives in the future.
Yes there is a war on far worse than the real Great War and WWII, this one has ‘hidden ammo’ (not stealth UAVs/UCAVS either) – this one’s armaments are economic and financial and the destructive ‘numbers’ don’t hit you for a long time after the hidden ‘disaster’ has occurred.
Here endeth the sermon:D
Hi Oliver – maybe consider this
Hi Oliver,
I love Boeing first and Airbus second.:) I guess because Boeing were first and I am a pre FBW flier.:)
Please consider this as possibly useful to most.:)
Maybe open a new thread –
1. Consider giving the thread a title “A diary of every new A380 – start to finish” or similar words – you choose.
2. Consider creating a new post for each new A380 (by future owner)
3. Then add an ‘Edit’ line to each post when you have to update info on that specific A380
4. That way we can keep in touch with each new A380’s progress but be looking at much fewer posts.
5. Should members create many posts below your original posts (for each new A380) then you can create a URL link in new posts to the older posts but carry on with new individual posts (one for each new A380) and their titles. It means diary history for each A380 will be seen via each individual link and any new diary details will follow in each post.
If this is confusing then get back to me.:)
I knew she would get there safely – is there any info on commercial flight scheds?
Article excerpt from Reuters
First Boeing Dreamliner arrives in fortress Japan
All Nippon (9202.T) Airways’ first Boeing (BA.N) 787 Dreamliner touched down in Tokyo early on Wednesday with hundreds of aviation fans welcoming the carbon-composite plane that its American maker is fielding, albeit three years late, to keep rival Airbus out of its best market.
Japan remains, however, a fortress for Boeing, which it dominates with a 90 percent market share. Flag-carrier Japan Airlines has never bought a European jet, while the Dreamliner’s new owner, ANA, has already phased out some of its ageing single aisle Airbus A320s.
Some 500 spectators flocked to Tokyo’s Haneda Airport to catch a glimpse of the first twin-engine, lightweight jetliner, which cruised in under a clear autumn sky before smoothly landing at around 9:04 a.m. (0004 GMT).
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/28/uk-boeing-idUSLNE78N00120110928
Hi Talltower,
I knew she would get there safely:D – is there any info on commercial flight schedules as yet?
I guess it’s huge contra trading – USA buys Japanese designed (made Goodness knows where now under globalisation), cars, machinery, electronics, etc and likewise USA wishes to hold on to it’s winning markets for Boeing.
I wish and hope ANA have safe and successful years ahead with the Dreamliner.:D