“Don’t forget that despite real-world combat records from the 1950’s until today……..Russian aircraft are ALWAYS superior to their Western counterparts.”
That is just dump,but because it suite you,it seems that you forget the circumstances.That in every war the USSR/Russia made planes was monkey versions,piloted exept a few wars by poor pilots,against more advanced,with more numbers and better trained enemy.So the results are no surprise.It’s like you are part of a gang that beat up a child.
I’m NOT saying that russian planes are superior to USA counterparts.I’m aware that most of the time they lagged behind in many areas,but they were still very capable in the right hands.It’s like USA and Russian planes can’t live without each other 😉 ,every new design influenced the counterpart.So F-22 is “part” of Su-27,which is part of F-15,which is….you get the point.
And if somebody make a statement that Su-35 will be superior to F-22,he is just stupid.But i can’t remember someone to say that Su-35 will “beat” F-22 in one-on-one combat.And the thread about russian 5-th gen fighter was floodet with posts that it will flight in 2018 because the russians lied about the weather in Nijnii Tagil.I still don’t get it when people are proud that someone else is poor and there is a strugle to complete something.
I also visited Russia recently,and there is much progress since my last visit in 1997.But outside major cities the situation is worse.But still is far from the worst Elzin time.The development of 5-th gen figther,aside from necessary for Russia,will also pay itself though exports.
“maybe some “special” forces that don’t kill hundreds of people in each action”-leave this crap for you.I doubt that there is force that will do better job in recent attacks.Yes there was mistakes,but in such complicated situations that is imminent.Russian special forces are well trained,equiped and highly proffesionals that do good job every day in Chechenia.
And as long there is such organisations in West like “American Committee for Peace in Chechnya”,the projected high western morale is just BS.Recently in one russian forum was a list of more than 40 USA based organisations that collect donations for the same “freedom fighters” that make the massacre in Beslan.
Well it’s not your fault,i just mention that this will be very important. 🙂
Let’s not forget that there will be deployed long range S-200 systems to cover the high altitude,protected by S-125 for low.And in ground forces there will be SA-4,SA-6,SA-8,SA-9.Systems proved to be capable and dangerous.The only country that encounter similar threat is Israel.The heavy loss that give Israel “forced learning course”(in 1973 war) just show how large the damage can be if USA in this scenario underestimate AA defence.Arab states was armed with just S-75(45km range),S-125(30km) and SA-6(26km) systems,around 2000 SA-7 portable launchers and some ZSU-23/4 systems to protect the tank and infantry devisions.I may anger someone,but in this war arabs show low level of discipline and professionalism,for example the low level of cooperation between PVO and air forces led to loss of 58 own planes.Soviet advisors were much better in all combat situations.Although AA forces account for 85% of Israel losses,and the SA-6/ZSU-23-4 combo lead to 55% of this losses.In Soviet controled Alaska,the task of USA and Canada will be very hard,even in low altitude flight.
That is very interesting scenario.And AndersN you want to keep the thread clean of ground forces,but in this plot Alaska will be flooded with AA systems and hordes of tanks and artillery.So there will be need for large number of ground attack planes.And parades like this in the Peoples Republic of Alaska 😉
“Yeah that’s why Russia is the one with the rep of making grandious announcments followed by a lot of cricket chirping. How many years did we hear the flight of the Mig 1.42 was “any day now” then it flew what, twice?”
MiG 1.42 never flew,it was “izdelie 1.44” demonstrator-“Article 1.44 is a technology and airframe/propulsion concept demonstrator, rather than a weapons systems equipped prototype, of the “Article 1.42 “
And you maybe forget that MiG 1.42 was developed in and after the time of USSR collapse.So i think that all MiG employees deserve credit just for completing the task enough to make 1.44 to fly “just twice”.In a time when there was no money even for fuel and salarys that was quite an achievement.
And Yuri Solomonov can say that Elvis is still alive,but he is the chief designer of two of the most modern and capable missiles,so he knew what he talk about.
“That’s funny…we certainly didn’t expect China to give up their Air Force after we wouldn’t deal with them anymore following Tianamen Square.”
SOC that is just dumb.I think Garry’s point is that US cannot “tell” a country wich have US planes,to have or not an airforce.If you can’t buy from US go to France,China,Russia,Sweden… and hope that the presure from US will not decide the deal.
“Now this I really don’t see the point of”
Of your goverment?Yes they have a reason…an unfriendly goverment is trying to build up their forces.
And why everybody bring B-2,F-117,F-22,all USA carriers,cruise missiles….i don’t remember Chavez to say that he will wipe off USA from the map with AK rifles and 24 Su fighters.Next time he buys fireworks for his birthday bring few ballistic missiles.He is such a threat.
pr.1164 Atlant/Slava

pr.971 Stuka/Akula

pr.941 Akula/Typhoon



Yamato

Suffren type

pr.1241

And for sferrin
It’s just dumb to compare the change that ocure in USSR and WP with the situation in Iraq.I myself expirienced that transition between totalitarian regime and democracy.There was hard moments and uprise in criminal activity but i don’t remember suicidal acts that kill a dozen people every day.Oridinary family in Iraq right now don’t have access to electricity,clean water and any kind of comunication.It’s great to watch all these news talking about “democracy” and “freedom” in Iraq,but nobody talk about how poor they are,and how stressfull and hard the life is there.No work,no money to feed the usually large family and fear to go out on the streets.You don’t have to be very smart to know why so many people are volunteers in the army in Iraq.This is one of the few jobs there.There is a member in my family that returned from Iraq from six month duty and he told me what is the real situation there.He survived number of attacks,including one that kill two of his mates.
And thinking that the oil is stealed from USA is stupid.USA secure the pumping and delivery of oil,thus ensuring the oil price.They don’t need to make Iraq another USA state,they need “friendly” regime or goverment in power.Like the puppet in Georgia.
It’s just dumb to compare the change that ocure in USSR and WP with the situation in Iraq.I myself expirienced that transition between totalitarian regime and democracy.There was hard moments and uprise in criminal activity but i don’t remember suicidal acts that kill a dozen people every day.Oridinary family in Iraq right now don’t have access to electricity,clean water and any kind of comunication.It’s great to watch all these news talking about “democracy” and “freedom” in Iraq,but nobody talk about how poor they are,and how stressfull and hard the life is there.No work,no money to feed the usually large family and fear to go out on the streets.You don’t have to be very smart to know why so many people are volunteers in the army in Iraq.This is one of the few jobs there.There is a member in my family that returned from Iraq from six month duty and he told me what is the real situation there.He survived number of attacks,including one that kill two of his mates.
And thinking that the oil is stealed from USA is stupid.USA secure the pumping and delivery of oil,thus ensuring the oil price.They don’t need to make Iraq another USA state,they need “friendly” regime or goverment in power.Like the puppet in Georgia.
I forgot to put Slava and Minsk and you instantly jump that i’m mistaken.I just want to say that Vulkan was developed just for Bazalt platforms and not for Granit one’s.
And Meteorit is replacement for Granit,changing the main armament and the purpose of the modified 949 subs.Meteorit was developed to strike directly the USA naval bases(one of the possible missions) and not enter the zones guarded by US subs.Your statement “if the Vulkan system worked, they would have used it to replace Granit too” is wrong by my opinion.The system worked well,and i allready give you reasons why it can’t replace Granit.Also P-1000 was “cheap” and simple improvement over P-500.It’s improved range can’t replace the “wolf” pack of Granits.
Indeed all have lineage from P-5(SS-N-3).But both Vulkan and Bazalt cannot be lauched underwater.That and the dimensions of Vulkan prevent from using it as replacement for Granit.Also both missiles use same engine(KR-17-300)that limit their top speed.Granit’s engine was developed for 4M speed,later redused to 2.2M.The shape of Granit is dictated by the demand for high speed and endurance in such temperatures.Vulcan as you said was instaled on EchoII/675MK subs(К-1, К-22, К-34, К-35, К-10-unfinished) and was developed specificly for them.According to my sources the improved Granit(early in 80’s) was called “Bolid”,but that is all that is known about it.
I mention Meteorit because the original question of Austin was ” Don’t you think they have been working on a Granit replacement since the Granit entered service?” and Meteorit was designed for further increase the gap between carrier-killer subs and carrier formations.
Just to point out.P-1000″Vulkan” is improved P-500″Bazalt” and have nothing to do with P-700″Granit”.The missile designed to replace P-700 is P-750″Meteorit”.But the work was too complicated,and instead of using 949/949M sub they used 667A for test.In the end the sub was 20 meters longer and the width reached 15 meters.Sadly the number of test launches equal the numbers of failures,because of complexity of the system.
I’m also “happy” about the news,but one thing bother me.All friends and people from USA and some other west countries “enjoy” the death of al-Zarqawi,but on the next day they are the all-loving christians.My family is ortodox christians and all bulgarians also see this as happy news,becouse we too have people killed by him.But when you have joy about someone’s death and like the way he died,you just fall to his level.Few people before me expressed similar view and i also support Steve,Nicolas and al-Flex297 😉
“Terrorists don’t care who they kill. They will kill civilians just to incite people against the war in general” Remember Drezden?I’m glad that now USA tries to have less civilian victims.
I’m also “happy” about the news,but one thing bother me.All friends and people from USA and some other west countries “enjoy” the death of al-Zarqawi,but on the next day they are the all-loving christians.My family is ortodox christians and all bulgarians also see this as happy news,becouse we too have people killed by him.But when you have joy about someone’s death and like the way he died,you just fall to his level.Few people before me expressed similar view and i also support Steve,Nicolas and al-Flex297 😉
“Terrorists don’t care who they kill. They will kill civilians just to incite people against the war in general” Remember Drezden?I’m glad that now USA tries to have less civilian victims.
Gauntlet yes this is Granit.And when the picture of the missile taken out of Kursk was published there was a scandal.The picture below is said to be also of Kursk before the tragedy,the sailor is believed to be dead.Here is some other photos.




You can see in the right of the missile,the protection cap,present in both sub and ship launched missiles.