snafuIs this picture any more clear?
A good quality scan of the rear from the ‘C’ aft would be great – all I can still make out is that the serial ends in 5. Probably.
snafuBack to the Ukraine/Russian sanctions.
Could tensions over Ukraine hit space?
With the downing of flight MH17, tensions between Russia and the United States over Ukraine have reached a new high. New tougher sanctions have been put in place, targeting Russia’s finance, defence and energy sectors. But Russia may have found a way to hit back – and America’s space industry is its target.
When Neil Armstrong set foot on the lunar surface in 1969, it was the pivotal point in a space race that had lasted for more than a decade.
America had beaten the Soviets to the Moon.
It was a great moment of US national pride, but the two rivals soon realised they could achieve so much more by working together.
“I had no idea when I joined Nasa, wanting to be an astronaut, hoping to fly, that I would have anything to do with Russia,” says Mike Foale, the British-born Nasa astronaut.
But during his 26-year career with the US space agency, he worked extensively with Russian cosmonauts as the alliance between the two nations grew.
“Collaboration between any group, and of course countries, is far more profitable for everybody than reservation and competition and being antagonistic,” he explains.
“So, in the end, humans always win more if they co-operate.”
But today, the Americans don’t just collaborate with the Russians. They depend on them.
In 2011, the Atlantis Shuttle flew its last mission. Nasa’s space shuttle programme had come to an end.
Now, to get to the International Space Station (ISS) – a long-serving symbol of unity in space – the Americans have to catch a lift from the Russians on their Soyuz spacecraft, at a cost of more than $60 million a seat.
But as tensions grow over Ukraine, relations between the US and Russia are becoming ever more fraught.
Earlier this year, a leaked memo revealed that Nasa was suspending some of its ties with Russia as part of America’s ongoing sanctions, apart from work on the ISS.
Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin responded by suggesting the Americans send their astronauts into space using a trampoline.
If Russia put a stop to these space taxi rides, American astronauts would be grounded. But Dr Foale says the Russians would lose out, too.
“In the case of America and Russia building the ISS, America agreed to build all of the electronics and electric power systems, and Russia agreed to build all of the fuel systems. So, we’re joined together in this common endeavour and we both need each other critically,” he said.
But it’s not just Nasa that relies on Russian space hardware; it’s also critical for US security.
The Atlas V rockets that launch America’s defence and intelligence satellites are powered by engines – called RD-180s – that are bought from Russia.
In essence, America needs Russian technology to spy on Russia.
And the supply line is looking increasingly vulnerable.
“This has become a national security concern that we do launch almost all of our reconnaissance satellites on this particular type of rocket,” explains General Stephen Cheney, who runs the American Security Project, a Washington-based think-tank.
“We can’t put up those satellites reliably by ourselves right now, so if Russia said ‘we’re not giving you any more’, we would really have to scramble to find a replacement.
“But perhaps even more ironic is that we are providing the Russians with literally billions of dollars to their defence industry… and who knows what they’re using that money for.
“They might even be buying anti-aircraft missiles to supply to the rebels in the Ukraine with this money.”
The problem was recently highlighted during a hearing in the US Senate.
There are only 15 RD-180s left in America’s stockpile, and if new sales were halted, it is estimated that critical defence and intelligence satellite missions could be delayed by up to four years while America tries to build a replacement propulsion system.
The hostility has left the US and Russia searching for new friends.
America is turning towards home-grown commercial industry to bring space manufacturing back to US soil.
Russia, though, has been looking further afield. Its eye has been caught by a new player in space: China.
Dmitry Rogozin has said Russia might end its role on the ISS in 2020, and could turn instead to the East. He’s been holding talks in China to discuss deepening space cooperation between the two nations.
Sergei Khrushchev has a unique perspective on the current problems.
He’s the son of the former Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, and was a rocket scientist during the Cold War. Now, though, he lives in America.
“The scientific community have a special relationship, based not on the political confrontation, not ideology, but on the respect of your achievements,” he explains.
He says both sides have a lot to lose.
“I will be very sad if collaboration between Russia and United States, and Russia and the EU, fails. Because it is against Russian instincts, American instincts and European instincts,” he adds.
“Working here with the Americans, and Americans working with the Russian Academy of Science – I am good friends with them.
“And now with the results of the ambition of the simple-minded politicians, we have thrown everything in the garbage.”
Bill Barry, Nasa’s chief historian, is hopeful that Russia and the US will maintain their alliance in space.
“Of course the relationships between the US and Russia, and the Soviet Union before that, have had their ups and downs,” he says.
“But space cooperation has been one of the things we have both agreed on, that it is a good thing to do and a positive example of how we can collaborate on important things.
“It is a good scientific endeavour and I think both sides see it as an opportunity to find ways to work together.”
Didn’t know that the US didn’t build it’s own rocket engines anymore, but then to hear that they come from Russia is quite a shock!
snafuRemember this one that was in he Observer amongst others.
I remember the picture and, whilst I don’t remember it being on the front page I do remember it being on placards in the run up to the invasion in 2003. And I agree with its photographer, Ken Jarecke, when he said that if he didn’t show this to the world then people like his mother would think it was like it is in the movies. But apparently it didn’t make the papers in America – too shocking.
Or the naked young girl burnt by Napalm in Vietnam, again showing the horror of war and again published in many newspapers of the time… Again showing that when you as a country to war, the innocents are always the first to suffer.
Indeed, another shocking image that nearly didn’t get published because of its shocking nature; but double Pulitzer winner Horst Faas fought for it and Phan Thi Kim Phuc became more than just another victim of a lost war, but the subject of Nick Ut’s Pulitzer prize. (Nixon doubted that pictures authenticity, privately claiming it was staged in an attempt to turn the American public further against what was happening then in Vietnam.) Faas also battled for another, earlier subsequent Pulitzer winning but no less shocking picture, by Eddie Adams, of a Vietnamese police chief executing a Vietcong suspect with a pistol in 1968.
For me the difference between these images and the one on the Sun’s front page is that we (well, most of us) know them, we know that they were featured in newspapers and were uncensored when used (Phan Thi Kim Phuc’s image might be cropped to above her waist though); they are there for us to see the horror as it happened when the camera’s shutter clicked – they do not use strips to hide the complete face of the subjects, we cannot see the terror of the decapitated soldier nor the eyes of the child (it is obviously not about the child’s identity, since both his parents have been named and other distinguishing marks on his face can be seen). I have already said that the picture should be seen – just not on the front page.
Tony, Charlie & CD, I’d like to point out that it’s refreshing to see that you obviously care more about a blatant case of child abuse than the behaviour of something that has only a passing resemblance to a newspaper, and a retail outlet. At least you seem to have your priorities in the right order.
Ah, Edgar. You have children? Would you have been happy for them to have seen that picture when they were in junior school, or younger?
There is little anyone can do about the boy in Syria at the moment, other than maybe sending in the Australian SAS to retrieve him – and we all know that is not going to happen. If he and his parents make it out alive then we can all demand that the family is broken up to salve our collective consciences over the kid being abused by being given a head to hold (assuming he wasn’t the one to actually chop it off), but if that is what fits your brief of child abuse how about children being able to view that front page? We all know that there are some dreadful parents out there who will not give a damn about what their kids see (or can view on the net), but there are others who do care and would rather not have their hand forced by walking into Tesco and coming face to face with death porn.
Just a thought but several years ago I was given a job with the possibility of going into a morgue and viewing a dead body; all sorts of forms were given to me to sign, clearing my employer of responsibility should my fragile mindset not take viewing the corpse and I had to fill in something like a health and safety checklist explaining what I could and should do if I felt uneasy in the presence of the cadaver. As it happened the deceased was taken away by the funeral people about an hour before I was due there – somebody else’s bad timing fortunately, not mine. Do you think any preparation was done for that images appearance on the Sun’s front page, about whether everyone was ready to view it? Me neither.
Why all the news paper snobbery ? Just because you choose to read a particular paper doesn’t mean your Thick/Less Intelligent than others etc.etc.
Quite correct, although that doesn’t explain Sport readers…;o)
What I will agree on is the picture was Crass/Distasteful and Tactless, more thought really should have gone into it rather than the editor just saying ‘Yeah that’s o.k. just blur the kids face’ Having said that it was on Sky news several times ???? so if it was never published in the papers it may have been seen on a news channel also ?
Bat, who owns the Sun? And who owns Sky? I’ll give you a clue: it’s the same man, he’s not god but he’d like to be…
snafuWorries about money, history of depression, early stages of Parkinson’s disease – any creditors would surely want him alive to make them money now rather than dead and relying on the royalties.
And isn’t it a little too dramatic to go to the trouble of making it appear like he’d hung himself after failing to slash his wrists – like something out of a weekday afternoon TV murder mystery to be solved by some famous author in her spare time?
snafuHardly weird though…;o)
Not like, for example, (There’ll Be Bluebirds Over) The White Cliffs of Dover, which is just crazy! Written by Americans Walter Kent and Nat Burton, there is more chance of John Green winning his initial election than wild Bluebirds being seen naturally flying over the south east Kent coastline.
snafuThe FIGAS Islander was totally red, so doubtful.
NO IT WASN’T, YOU IDIOT – THAT WAS THE BEAVERS/OTTERS/TWIN OTTERS! The Islander that had its tail nearly severed (VP-FAY) was overall white with red trim.
snafuIt looks like 31 Sqn North West Frontier to me The incident to K1289 would be an earlier one than 1941 to me
Guess such information didn’t always make it back to get attached to the AM records – full info is: Deld to PD (Packing Depot) 9/12/30; AD (Aircraft Depot) Drigh Road 1/5/31; 31 Sqn; 5 Sqn; 27 Sqn coded ‘H’; 1 IAF – then the information I gave earlier and I forgot to add SOC 17/7/42. No dates for any of the squadrons and, from the picture, it is obviously not coded ‘H’…!
I am not experienced enough to say that it is written off in the photo and since The K File has an image of a rather smashed up K1130 which crashed at Sulaimania 9/8/32 and was returned to service after rebuild by the Aircraft Depot at Hinaidi, maybe it was a little premature of me to assume that the first photo signalled its demise.
snafuRivets look to have purple tails and mush heads (SP85?) and the slotted screws make it look distinctly British to my eyes.
Short Skyvan?
snafuK1289: 1 IAF Squadron, engine cut, forcelanded in field, Pushtakhara, near Peshawar, 30/6/41, according to Air Britain’s The K File.
Can’t make out the serial for the other one.
snafuLooking at decal sheets, the Argentines appeared to be protective of their language – nothing seems to be left unpainted from previous US service externally.
snafuThank you! I adopted it when several other options appeared to have already been taken, although they seem to have left the party long ago…
John is hoping to go for a career as a fascist in local politics; he is practising his craft here, you notice.
And Charlie is usually just his sycophant, a yes-man, so I sometimes forget to read his posts…sorry Charlie!
The BBC was your source!
Indeed, but they were not the only ones who reported the story – which is the impression I got from your post.
Not sure what an “acceptable to you slant” is
I could go down the route for the hard of thinking but instead shall just say that you could read through several other news websites and find one with a suitably right-wing bias that suits your own political slant – you know, one that looks on the comments sympathetically and views Hitler as just misguided rather than one of the 20th centuries biggest tyrants.
but anyway, I did, and at the seminar on public speaking he said:
“Look back to…blah blah blah
Yes, he mentioned other famous speakers from history, but a man in his position with the things that have already been said by members of his party should know that if you pay out enough rope they will hang you with it.
Here is one that you can have for free: UKIP members should never mention Hitler because nothing good will ever come from trying to be clever with a notorious Nazi. Yes, he is up there with Stalin and Mao but nobody ever tries to rehabilitate them (not in Europe, anyway) by claiming that they were hypnotic speakers or whatever.
As far as I am concerned Hitler was at the essence of all evil through WWII it was his stamp of approval over everything right from his climb into politics to his leadership of Germany and his dream of world domination the fact that millions believed goes to show he was a master at the art of delivering speeches’ with his belief spreading amongst those who attended the rallies even before WWII started.
Might I introduce the thought that there was a great deal of bullying in Germany in the 1920-30s which went a long way to influence those who follow like sheep? Both Stalin and Mao held their people back and sought out potential trouble makers and rabble rousers before they could have an effect, but Hitler used his own praetorian guard to keep things flowing the way he wanted.
And for some others to maliciously jump on what they hope will be a bandwagon
Sorry John, you’d rather we all accepted that the UKIP way is the only right and proper bandwagon to jump on?
And it’s hardly malicious: more the finest offering on a silver platter served up by a smartly attired waiter. Like I said above, don’t mention Hitler – the ripples from UKIP’s earlier foot-in-mouth faux pas are still washing on the shore, so chuckling more pebbles about like he did was a bit stupid.
snafuDid the image disturb you or were you worried that it may disturb any children that saw it?
I’m afraid I am beyond being shocked by such imagery, the fact that national or local management didn’t flag it up nor the staff on the shop floor (although I’ve been told that they find it easier if they don’t shake the tree) is more shocking. That and the ignorant morons at the Sun who decided to subject anyone who glanced in its direction to their death porn.
What is disturbing for me is the father and son that are the subject of the ‘article’; what kind of hatred would lead a father to voluntarily take his family into a war-zone and expose his son to the horrors of war at such an impressionable age? And that is the crux of the matter really, children are naturally impressionable and don’t get ‘shocked’ by normality, whatever that ‘normality’ actually is.
What kind of hatred? Religious hatred.
Why? Because their religion tells them they go to paradise when they die, and he wants to take his son with him when he goes?
The child, admittedly, does not look all that happy to be holding the head but I’d guess the Syrian soldier would wish he was also somewhere else – and alive. I can spout all those things about it being different out there for kids, different influences and experiences but the boy was from Australia and I guess they don’t do any more posing with severed human heads down under than we do.
Personally I don’t want my eight and nearly two year old children to be subjected to that sort of imagery at all, certainly not on the front page of a newspaper and definitely not in a supermarket.
This is one of the great problems with religion. Have you ever wondered why religions seem so keen to become involved in education? You can teach children that anything is ‘normal’, even to the extent that it is right-and-proper to kill somebody that doesn’t share exactly the same religious beliefs that you have!
Strangely, when you think about all that you know about the people of the country, the Americans have the right idea when they decreed that religion should be kept out of schools. That they could be said to have replaced it with blind, unquestioned patriotism (the oath of allegiance, every day?) is another matter…
The shocking thing to me is that this sort of thing is happening in the world today; it should be in the newspapers.
Should the photograph be on the front-page? Maybe not, but is that really what should be worrying us?
The wheels on my argument might run flat when I admit that yes, these things happen and need to be illustrated: it needs to been seen to have happened or it never happened.
BUT does it need to be seen on the front page? No. If you really must draw attention to the fact that you have published a picture of it inside your paper then maybe do something similar to what the Sport does with their teasing ‘pictures inside’ bits on the front. And no, I don’t read the Sport either, or do anything more than see the front page and realise it is not going to introduce a newsworthy exclusive for the other papers to envy…
Then the target of your complaint should really be at Tesco’s for positioning the newspaper in such a position that children entering the store could view it… Not many 5 or 6 year olds read newspapers, though to be honest the Sun writes for them.
If any children do read or go through their parents copy, then if the parent deems the page unsuitable, they should remove it… the Suns target market isn’t kids, so this is just really about an unsuitable display position in your store.
Would it surprise you to learn that Tesco does not have any guidelines for the display of mainstream publications? Yes, I got onto Tesco about it.
Whilst we do have guidelines for the placement of men’s magazines near publications aimed at children, we do not believe that similar guidelines are necessary for mainstream publications like newspapers.
Then again, no newspaper has featured an image of a child holding the severed head of a soldier on their front page before.
Essentially those positions on the newspaper stand in the entrance to Tesco are owned by and used to advertise the Sun; don’t mess with the Sun.
I asked in my follow up whether they would still display the newspaper in the unlikely event that the Sun published a swear word in block capitals on its front page (no guidelines on the matter and no respect for their customers, etc), a question I asked before pondering if my query had actually gone any further up the food chain than the customer services department but after the one where I asked if Tesco would be happy to go on record admitting that they did not take any action to prevent a distressing image being displayed to children and the vulnerable on entering their stores. Strangely, again, I have not yet had a reply.
Essentially that’s right, Tony – I agree with you.
Ah ha!
The thread is designed to provoke and antagonise.
Provoke and antagonise who?
I’m guessing from your usual lazy knee-jerk that you don’t mean provoke discussion and antagonise a response, but please, carry on massaging Tonys ego – it might make John jealous…;o)
snafuYes, it’s such a well balanced and adult paper, on the same page…
“Exclusive. Women with UK’s biggest trout pout!”
… I rest my case.
Ok, I shall remain calm.
I do not read the Sun: never have, never will. I happened upon this particular front page prominently displayed in a Tesco. I found it offensive, but you ignored the subject of the thread and blather on about someone reading that comic! Yes, as far as I’m aware they poke fun at people with irreverent articles probably everyday but, fortunately, they don’t feature severed human heads in a child’s hands quite so frequently. I rate the paper only marginally above the Daily Star with its repeated promotion of events connected with Big Brother on what used to be its groups TV channel featuring heavily on its front page pages, rather than real news.
Still, if you want to talk about stupid exclusives in the red tops rather than a serious story go right ahead.
snafu…I did see a film on TV a while ago which showed literally dozens of crated jeeps being shoved off a ship into the sea at the end of the war, and it didn’t look like they were out at sea but in a harbour of sorts…
Not trying to disparage you, this programme or the event (if it happened as described), and stating the right bleedin’ obvious but you just don’t dump stuff in a harbour you might even remotely use again! Quite apart from actually blocking the waterway anyone who falls over the side could be injured, or worse.
snafuWell, you’re the alleged expert on that.
Lovely reply, John, wonderful come back.[/sarcasm]
Have you given up or is that really the best answer you can come up with? You might as well poke your tongue out, mutter ‘nah nah-ne-nah nah’ and leave the thread. Oh, you did…
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