IcarusRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
JJ
Well, at least Israel doesn’t use WMD on its own population, and neither on its enemies… I don’t see what Israeli nukes have anything remotely to do with this anyway.
JJ, the point being that the French who you were getting on about Osirak were also the ones that happily supplied Israel with it’s nuclear kit (namely, the Dimona reactor and the Jericho missile technology).
As for Halajah, aren’t they saying that it came from the Iranians now?
IcarusRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
JJ
Well, at least Israel doesn’t use WMD on its own population, and neither on its enemies… I don’t see what Israeli nukes have anything remotely to do with this anyway.
JJ, the point being that the French who you were getting on about Osirak were also the ones that happily supplied Israel with it’s nuclear kit (namely, the Dimona reactor and the Jericho missile technology).
As for Halajah, aren’t they saying that it came from the Iranians now?
IcarusRE: so funny…
Who says Turkey will start a war with Iraq ??
The United States has said it will. Turkey has agreed to host some of the U.S forces that will. They in turn have also (as reported) come to an agreement whereby they would be ‘allowed’ to occupy parts of northern Iraq.
Even if the chances that the weapons will be needed are slim, Turkey derserves the help from the other NATO members.
No they do not. Why should NATO come running in to help them if they are attacked due to them starting a war? They shouldn’t is the answer. This is Mr.Bush’s opus, thus let him and the others like him who want to pick a fight pay for it.
IcarusRE: so funny…
Who says Turkey will start a war with Iraq ??
The United States has said it will. Turkey has agreed to host some of the U.S forces that will. They in turn have also (as reported) come to an agreement whereby they would be ‘allowed’ to occupy parts of northern Iraq.
Even if the chances that the weapons will be needed are slim, Turkey derserves the help from the other NATO members.
No they do not. Why should NATO come running in to help them if they are attacked due to them starting a war? They shouldn’t is the answer. This is Mr.Bush’s opus, thus let him and the others like him who want to pick a fight pay for it.
IcarusRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
Gary has hit the nail SQUARELY on the head with this statement:
I thought NATO was about defence from agression?
If the US and Turkey decide to attack Iraq and Iraq responds by trying to hit US bases in Turkey I don’t think it is any of NATO business.
Bingo! Do we all really assume that Iraq will hit Turkey anyways? C’mon! He will be more concerned about dealing with what the Americans are throwing at him than anything else.
NATO like Gary said is supposed to defend from an attack. If Turkey+the U.s decide to start a fight, explain to me why any other NATO member should commit anything.
JT
but it’s nice to know who stands where. So Nato(not solely the U.S.) wouldn’t intervene if Turkey was attacked by Iraq? did I get that right?
If Turkey wants to start a war, Turkey will deal with it itself. Period.
IcarusRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
Gary has hit the nail SQUARELY on the head with this statement:
I thought NATO was about defence from agression?
If the US and Turkey decide to attack Iraq and Iraq responds by trying to hit US bases in Turkey I don’t think it is any of NATO business.
Bingo! Do we all really assume that Iraq will hit Turkey anyways? C’mon! He will be more concerned about dealing with what the Americans are throwing at him than anything else.
NATO like Gary said is supposed to defend from an attack. If Turkey+the U.s decide to start a fight, explain to me why any other NATO member should commit anything.
JT
but it’s nice to know who stands where. So Nato(not solely the U.S.) wouldn’t intervene if Turkey was attacked by Iraq? did I get that right?
If Turkey wants to start a war, Turkey will deal with it itself. Period.
IcarusRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
>>>I don’t remember France and Germany consulting with their allies: heck, the Dutch PM had to read in the papers that Germany and France made this lunatic proposal. Pot to kettle…<<<
Touche. They were not the first to ‘go it alone’. I much find overtures for a peaceful settlement much more easy to stomach anyways to tell you the truth.
>>>And so did they spend a lot of money on Greece… I don’t see how the fact that Spain is a beneficiary means that they cannot oppose Germany and France. After all, weren’t you saying that Europe owes nothing to the US, even after they saved our a**es in WWI and WWII and helped rebuild Europe…<<<
The U.S has taken what it needed from Europe for 50 years now. They have been paid back in full and then some. Their deliberate attempts to nullify EU moves on integration are unacceptable. The America of the 40’s is gone now anyways.
Again, I don’t see why these nations needed to act in the dark on this. It’s not so much that they went against Germany and France (and others!), it’s that they sided with the side that wants to cancel out European moves for a common foreign policy. I should rightly expect funding to these nations from Germany to slow.
Btw, Greece remembers what it owes to who. The U.S has had a vested interest to keep the Aegean “warm” for decades to bolster arms sales. They have stayed silent on certain parties ‘adventures’ there too. They’ve forced Greece to spend lots on arms that could have gone elsewhere. They’ve taken back their Truman plan 10 times over.
IcarusRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
>>>I don’t remember France and Germany consulting with their allies: heck, the Dutch PM had to read in the papers that Germany and France made this lunatic proposal. Pot to kettle…<<<
Touche. They were not the first to ‘go it alone’. I much find overtures for a peaceful settlement much more easy to stomach anyways to tell you the truth.
>>>And so did they spend a lot of money on Greece… I don’t see how the fact that Spain is a beneficiary means that they cannot oppose Germany and France. After all, weren’t you saying that Europe owes nothing to the US, even after they saved our a**es in WWI and WWII and helped rebuild Europe…<<<
The U.S has taken what it needed from Europe for 50 years now. They have been paid back in full and then some. Their deliberate attempts to nullify EU moves on integration are unacceptable. The America of the 40’s is gone now anyways.
Again, I don’t see why these nations needed to act in the dark on this. It’s not so much that they went against Germany and France (and others!), it’s that they sided with the side that wants to cancel out European moves for a common foreign policy. I should rightly expect funding to these nations from Germany to slow.
Btw, Greece remembers what it owes to who. The U.S has had a vested interest to keep the Aegean “warm” for decades to bolster arms sales. They have stayed silent on certain parties ‘adventures’ there too. They’ve forced Greece to spend lots on arms that could have gone elsewhere. They’ve taken back their Truman plan 10 times over.
IcarusRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
I still don’t understand what the U.S needs of NATO. Some Patriot missiles and E3s? The U.S can supply Turkey with whatever they need and have always done so. I see this as a de facto attempt to bring the dissenters “on board” to tell you all the truth.
Spain, Italy and the rest all have the RIGHT to act as they see fit, but the way they did it undermined the EU. Whether they like it or not, Europe is trying to forge a common policy. At the very least, they should have consulted their EU allies. Instead they purposely kept the ‘letter’ secret from the EU. They cannot on one hand accept billions in EU (mostly German) funding and not at the very least inform their benefactors of their actions. Whether they like it not, (especially Spain) Germany and the EU in general has spent alot of money modernizing their countries and what they did was shameful.
Not only was it cloak and dagger stuff, but it was directly against the wishes of most of the citizens of the said nations. When will they stand up to the U.S? The accept U.S pressure on internal EU matters all the time without most of them saying anything. I see very few EU nations taking offence to America pressuring them to take in one of America’s most valuable allies which also happens to be severly in debt.
As so long as Britain is in the EU working for the Americans there can be no real union in such endeavours.
IcarusRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
I still don’t understand what the U.S needs of NATO. Some Patriot missiles and E3s? The U.S can supply Turkey with whatever they need and have always done so. I see this as a de facto attempt to bring the dissenters “on board” to tell you all the truth.
Spain, Italy and the rest all have the RIGHT to act as they see fit, but the way they did it undermined the EU. Whether they like it or not, Europe is trying to forge a common policy. At the very least, they should have consulted their EU allies. Instead they purposely kept the ‘letter’ secret from the EU. They cannot on one hand accept billions in EU (mostly German) funding and not at the very least inform their benefactors of their actions. Whether they like it not, (especially Spain) Germany and the EU in general has spent alot of money modernizing their countries and what they did was shameful.
Not only was it cloak and dagger stuff, but it was directly against the wishes of most of the citizens of the said nations. When will they stand up to the U.S? The accept U.S pressure on internal EU matters all the time without most of them saying anything. I see very few EU nations taking offence to America pressuring them to take in one of America’s most valuable allies which also happens to be severly in debt.
As so long as Britain is in the EU working for the Americans there can be no real union in such endeavours.
IcarusRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
And be sure to thank the French for Dimona and your *ahem* indigenous Jericho missiles.
IcarusRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
And be sure to thank the French for Dimona and your *ahem* indigenous Jericho missiles.
IcarusRE: figaro
Seahawk, what concerns me is that they went literally behind the EU’s back to side with the U.S at a time when most people in Europe AND the U.S do not beleive war is neccasary. Alittle consultation, alittle concern for a common united EU position they did not care about. But when it comes to putting out their hand for subsidies they need the EU?
IcarusRE: figaro
Seahawk, what concerns me is that they went literally behind the EU’s back to side with the U.S at a time when most people in Europe AND the U.S do not beleive war is neccasary. Alittle consultation, alittle concern for a common united EU position they did not care about. But when it comes to putting out their hand for subsidies they need the EU?
IcarusRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/09/30/sproject.irq.regime.change/rumsfeld…
Nough said. Look no further than the U.S to see who supplied what to Iraq.
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