Y-20 BaconI have managed to find a 3D model of the T-50-1
It is a pretty simple model and I had to use Blender as I didn’t have any CAD program outside of work. Can you guys and especially Jo et al. have a look to verify it is good enough. I think they got the upper engine cowlings wrong but I could be wrong.
More images to follow. If the model stands up to scrutiny as good enough, I (or others, the model was available for free) can proceed in making placements of the engine and possible blocker devices to verify all claims made so far.
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good job so far, but your engines are too skinny
Y-20 Baconno, the F-35 is the new F-18. an attacker with fighter capabilities.
Y-20 BaconJust fitting nicely ….
so they are using their f-16 patterns on the eagles.
glad they didnt stick with that blue angels looking theme
Y-20 BaconWhen comparing the T-50 to the JF-17 with respect to airframe life, be careful! An hour for one aircraft does not necessarily equal an hour for the other, since they’re quite different in role (front line combat aircraft vs. LIFT). When you read ‘hours’ of airframe life, think ‘hours of typical use’ and needless to say how severe ‘typical use’ is rather depends on what type of aircraft you are dealing with. And even among aircraft of the same class and from the same country it can be difficult to compare as requirements may vary (consider F-16 vs. F/A-18). In that context it would be interesting to know whether airframe life for the F/A-50 remains at 10000h (I would wager it doesn’t).
Hours of airframe life are simply derived from the loads (of various nature, direction, duration and frequency) *expected* to be encountered per hour of service. From past experience with similar aircraft and any peculiarities due to known changes in how the new design is to be used (perhaps more emphasis on strike, meaning it will probably carry heavier payloads more often), the customer works out what those loads are and specifies how long he wants the aircraft to last and the supplier designs the structure accordingly. This can go wrong though, the F-16 is a nice example – IIRC it was designed at least in part upon usage patterns from the F-4E, but needless to say once real pilots got their hands on this much more agile jet it was flown nothing like the far less nimble Phantom. High g-loads were much more frequent than anticipated and the aircraft would consequently not take the strain for as long as advertised, the result being the Falcon UP/STAR programmes aimed at making sure it would actually be able to make its original service life target.
At the end of the day, a LIFT (as opposed to a basic trainer) is probably not so different to an actual front line combat aircraft (I’d guess typical payload would be the main difference) as to account for a 300% advantage, but adjusted for different assumptions about use they’ll likely end up quite a bit closer.
speaking of which, material is also a factor, some better withstanding more use.
if I recall correctly, the jf-17 is mostly steel.
Y-20 BaconSo let China invent something new instead of copying a design and then crowing how innovative China is. The Blackhawk isn’t the only helicopter design in the world. There were plenty others China could have copied. Actually China is restricting itself by always copying designs. Copying will keep China always a step behind.
China seems to follow the path of when faced with two technologies with a similar expected return (but different risks), will prefer the one with the lower risk.
Chinese military development (also its economic one too) is mostly reactive not revolutionary. Since they are still playing catch up, they will naturally accomplish this by mimicking or straight out copying existing designs. In other words, they’re not seeking ground breaking new ideas, but to match the existing ideas of others.
You could argue that the reason why they did not copy certain designs 100 percent, not because they were trying to add some new innovation, but rather, they can’t copy it completely. Developers still lack certain tools or systems and have to modify the design to suit existing one. See J-10 changes after CAC was forced to realize that they will use the AL-31. like wise the new blackhawk dumpling had to be modified to use other engines.
there’s a strong defensive attitude among some members here about anything china. some of it is understandable because china gets more criticism than it deserves. but alot of these defensive, and in many cases, butt hurt posters, are generally not interested in aviation and only post in chinese related threads, so there’s a lack of knowledge about aviation in general and what goes on in other countries. So if Shengyang built say, some FSW fighter, then these people would go off about why FSW is the best wing design. just like how they are defensive about the J-20s canards, DSI, etc with out actually understanding them and over exaggerating the degree of uniqueness or innovation in design with out critically thinking just like the “J-10 is derived from the J-9 because some one said so end of discussion” despite the fact that the J-9 is a completely different aircraft period. Ironically these are the same people who once criticized Russian designs for looking too much like US designs and lacking originality (this was back before the J-11, J-15, etc emerged).
Y-20 Bacon2 pages of nothing but transport and cargo plane talk booring,
you’re boring
transport aircraft produce income
fighter aircraft just cost money.
Y-20 BaconLet’s be honest, JSR’s, uh, interesting…views on things aside, as far as aviation is concerned, yeah, the Czechs are 2nd tier at best, today.
In 10 years we will still be hearing of the L-159s export attempts, and little else.
oh hai, welcome back!
Y-20 Baconfor iraqis this is a “light fighter” that also acts as LIFT.
As I can see the price is ludicrous. $87.5M over 20 years… add to that the fuel / ordnance etc… then it will be over $110M at least… and will pass the cost of getting a friggin Grippen NG! 😀
If Iraq is getting F-16s and MiG-29s, I don’t see the point of having a light fighter. its just wasteful luxury that could be used for other things
Y-20 BaconDude, being yourself an infamous culinary-bot, u may wish to be reminded that the island yanks used to bombing practice is in South China sea, and now in Chinese control, and US never drill on the island in dispute in east China sea
not my fault you don’t know much about Senkaku, Diaoyu whatever island.
I’ve already instructed how blitzo can go educate himself, you should follow suit.
google “US target practice senkaku”
duh
is that too hard?
Y-20 BaconWhat’s SOFA?
I literally have no idea where you are pulling the idea that the US controls the islands and that they are used for US bombing practice.
They are like three uninhabited rocks, if the US did practice bombing them at all they would not be there anymore… which would actually solve the problems quite handily.
of course you have no idea, you don’t even bother looking up the facts, especially after I told you what to google. the fact that you don’t even know SOFA shows that you hardly know anything about the history of the islands.
no surprise the others here don’t know about US control of the islands because they’re only focused on China’s claims and lack substantial history on the dispute or the other perspectives.
since you’re so lazy
you can easily wiki it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands#Japanese_and_US_control
http://www.hnn.us/article/133059
etc
Y-20 BaconThank you!
And thank you again to Jo for his tireless work in digging all this juicy stuff (even if i’m oblivious to most of it).
All i can do is post a picture.
(c)Evgeny Volkov@ russianplanes:
nice picture. They should name this plane Jaws. the vents behind the cockpit looks like gills, especially given the paint job.
Y-20 Baconlol, come on seriously..
ej2000 or F414 engines?
AESA radars?
engines are not plug and play.. do you think Iraq will be willing to fund the possibility of needing re-designed inlets?
why would a LIFT need AESA?
either there’s more included in this deal that made it expensive (missiles, etc)
or perhaps Iraq is indeed getting jipped
Y-20 BaconThe iedeo rock or whatever they’re called is less of an issue between china and Korea than the islands between china and Japan, and certainly less of an issue than the dokdo dispute between Korea and Japan.
Where did you read that the Diaoyu/senkaku islands were controlled by the US, and where did you read that they are used for bombing practise?
please read SOFA, please google them yourself. The results will be on the first page (avoid the ones with .cn). We know chinabots don’t like to dig the details themselves and prefer to let the general media tell them the facts
The islands (not all of them) have been controlled directly by the US right after WWII and has not been returned to Japan.
Iedeo is less of an issue because China can’t generate the same WWII victim complex and grande historical dynasty narrative with the Koreans as they do with the Japanese. Although I’m sure the Koreans will think of something.
Y-20 BaconIf we’re talking realism…China’s interest is really only over the Senkakus in the East China Seas, which really only directly involves Japan. This particular dispute is something the US would rather not get sucked into.
you must be blind. does it not compute in your brain? the US (that’s the United States) controls several of the Senkaku Islands and always have been, not Japan.
You want the islands, you gotta go through the US first. they are using it for bombing runs and target practice this whole time.
but we know you guys rather make a strawman out of Japan than the US. You think the US wants to give up one of their islands?
the ADIZ also involves Korea as China claims one of their islands/rocks/whatever you wanna call it.
Y-20 BaconPoland economics are assembly line for Germanic business. It does not have its own GDP. It has to play by by EU rules.
Algeria has this much reserves two years ago. which is large amount relative to population.
lol at you for thinking 200bn in reserves will be used for the military
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