The reason is simple.. there is hardly anything to discuss on that Ukrainian “fighter”.
The China/Russia issues are much more interesting… and most of all.. much more real..
hardly sign of country short of money. the greater Russia spend money on military the more China becomes junior partner. I have yet to see 2500/3000L fuel tanks under Chinese fighters.
http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2016/m=4/news=infantino-i-m-impressed-by-russia-2018-preparations-2781719.html
Infantino: I’m impressed by Russia 2018 preparations
its funny whenever some one mentions the word
Ukraine
somehow screw comes loose among pro-Russian members and they get all defensive like its the Mongol invasion.
only 4 posts in this thread were actually related to the new fighter jet. The rest is insecurity over Russia’s junior relationship with China.
Russia will discourage investment in Ukraine economy from other parts of world so that West money is drained in supporting a bankrupt Ukraine. its basic logic.
I haven’t shown you the full reality of why China is Junior partner to Russia. you wont get any natural resource from CIS without Russia military power. Your completely depended on overflight rights.
There is another version of Middleast that Russia can implement not just in Syria.
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2016-05-04/iranian-commander-threatens-to-close-strait-of-hormuz-to-us
Deputy commander of Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard threatens to close Strait of Hormuz to U.S.
ummm, did you read my post? See the part at the bottom where it says EXCEPT for GDP PPP? So, I ask in relative terms, based on PPP per capita, which nation is Russia closest to?
In no way is this intended to be Russia bashing, more directed to those who continue to harp about the relative strength of the Russian economy whilst in the midst of a recession. Frankly, it is a bit scary to see both here on this forum and in some Russian media outlets, the spin put on this economic downturn. It will virtually guarantee that the structural reforms needed will not be enacted.
I am not sure what you measuring. Russia has low unemployment, low debt consumer, sky high hotel occupancy rates, record food production. Practically unlimited credit from Arab world ( read the slow down in bombing in Aleppo) and China.
why Erdogan is mad at Arab league and asking for money from EU. They have slow down the support .
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/president-erdogan-questions-arab-league-.aspx?pageID=517&nID=98511&NewsCatID=510
If Russia has iota of problem with money. It will send all this Arab world into stone age.
Infrastructure for some major petrochemical projects like Sinopec/Sibur or Yamal LNG, Golden Horn bay bridge or metal project Udocan.
Russia’s infrastructure sector needs more than $100 billion of investment and China is eager to get a big chunk of that..http://english.cctv.com/2016/05/01/VIDEq0avEt2vsXohpPbgvYCY160501.shtml
Russia has a huge amount of natural resources which China needs. I can’t see how this puts Russia on the weaker side.. you don’t call Saudis weak just because they need to sell their crude, do you?.. It’s mutually advantageous for both sides..
some one living in country that is Junior partner to US/Germany/Arabs/Israel/China in various capacities simply cant have the depth of intellectual capital to understand Russia.
new bullet trains are coming.
https://www.rt.com/business/341693-russia-supply-water-china/
Thirst for water: Russia to send freshwater to drought-stricken Chinese region
highly efficient intelligence operation to sniff how these people will vote.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/dec/02/england-russia-win-2018-world-cup
England beaten as Russia win 2018 World Cup bid• England bid knocked out in first round of voting
• £15m campaign comes to nothing after humiliating defeat
So, when China buys relatively small batches & then builds clones, & Russia accepts it, that’s nothing to do with China having leverage?
China has bought hundreds of choppers and airdefence systems from Russia. it enabled Russia to expand production such that to restablish credibility with Iran. the newest systems components from S400/S350 were supplied in less than a year from signing contract. this is called efficient and effective production. It show to Turkey and other Middleast countries that only Russia can supply advanced technology the fastest.
where is the leverage?.
These posts are so OT it isn’t even funny, but to add my 2c on this….
If your going to make an argument about relative strength of Russian economy, get the basic facts correct. By no measure of PPP [correction, except GDP PPP] (per Capita, GNI) is Russia above South Korea. It is closer to Greece and Poland.edit- corrected for 2015 est. GDP PPP
so you consider Greece and Poland countries living off from perpetual transfer payments from Brussels and assembling lines of Germanic corporations where shareholder is wealthy Arab funds. As I said some countries have GDP and some not.
Errr . . . . what high value added products does Russia buy from China? It certainly doesn’t buy fighter jets, or AFAIK infrastructure. It buys consumer goods, just the same as W. Europe & the USA does. Most of its exports to China are exactly the same as China can get from Saudi Arabia, & many other suppliers. The only things Russia sells to China that China can’t buy freely elsewhere are weapons, & the only reason it transfers any technology is because that’s the price of the business – because China has the upper hand & can insist on it.
Russia used the deeply liquid markets for funds. this is called financial products made in China. where did Russia transfer advanced technology except for 1970s Flanker.
Then there’s the question of investment. Chinese annual investment in Russia has recently been about 3% of what it invests in Europe & the USA. Big deal.
millions of Chinese suppose to settle in West. Russia cant have this kind of investment relationship. It is very different loan and project based.
Compare the rate at which China’s assembling A320s with total Russian airliner production. A320 neo will follow on, & A330 completion is being added. Know-how transfer in these deals is limited, but real.
Russia put more emphasis on complete local production except for Panasonic inflight entertainment and Italian interiors in some planes. and production is lower so that bank does not have to finance and give discounts for over production.
Even the Chinese made planes use Russian titanium. and next C919 plane is outdated compared to MS21 due to lack of composites.
The reality is that Russia needs China as a customer for its oil & gas (Russia’s biggest export customer, but China’s 10th or so biggest trade partner), & China finds some classes of Russian weapons useful. But it extracts a price for its purchases from Russia, in the form of weapons technology. Russia’s very much the junior partner in the relationship.
The reality is China needs Russia to keep Oil/Gas/Minerals price down for lower inflation and currency to ward of US pressure on sea lanes. China will soon need Russia for fresh water and food. and tourist destination for clean air. how exactly is it a Junior Partner?
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21684806-how-lure-rich-chinese-take-chance-russia-russian-roulette
Since the collapse of the rouble the flow has reversed. Chinese shoppers come to buy Russian food, which they think safer than their own chemical-ridden produce. Others come for a bit of Europe. Li Tsang, a hairdresser from Fuyuan, raves about Khabarovsk, just across the Amur river: “It’s so clean
Many Russians haven’t accepted their loss of status, rather like those British people who still imagine that the UK is a great power. Hence this talk of Russian leverage over China. Doh!
Russia shouldn’t accept the status of British People. Russia is far more powerfull than Soviet Union ever will be. No multiethinic dysfunctions. Global Satellite coverage for global strikes from crusie missiles from multiple platforms even from compact ships and subs.
http://spacewatchme.com/2016/03/russia-aids-north-african-counterterrorism-operations-with-satellite-imagery/
Russia aids North African counterterrorism operations with satellite imagery
Maintaining round the clock operations with high tempo both in fighters and choppers thousands of kms from overhaul centers. It’s the Russian attack choppers at night that has broken the back of ISIS and enable Iraki army in Anbar.
Have you read the Saudi ambassador columns in British newspapers essentialy threatening UK. Such Ambassdoor will be booted out from Russia in seconds.
I don’t know how much technology Ukraine still has that China might be interested in (jet engines?), but if there is any, I can easily imagine China seeing the opportunity to exploit Ukrainian desperation to get a very good deal on transferring it, & not caring about Russian feelings, because it perceives Russia as having no alternative but to co-operate with China. What friends does Russia have left? Syria?
So you admit you don’t know about technology Ukraine has left that is some thing of value. Remember technology is not just finish product. And certainly you have no idea about how relations in 21st century are conducted between nations. There is no such thing as Friendship.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Israel-welcomes-Ukrainian-president-at-risk-of-aggravating-Russia-438045
Hours after welcoming Ukranian president, Netanyahu phones Putin
Exactly.
in 2016, Russia’s GDP is lower than South Korea’s and declining, probably will be around Australia’s. China’s GDP is #2 in the world and rising.
Numbers don’t lie. Money is the biggest influence in the world.
what are Saudi/Germany/UAE begging Obama. these countries have lots of money based on so called GDP.
Australia/SK does not have GDP. Australia/SK does not control labor or currency. They are depended on imports.
There is reason US is bending Turkey and sign this peace deal.
http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2016/04/30/turkeys-defense-industry-needs-to-be-100-percent-self-sufficient-erdogan-says
These are NATO allies, let me tell you. When there are ongoing threats against Turkey due to the crisis in Syria, these countries supply terrorist groups with arms, but unfortunately fail to support their friend, Turkey. “Then they tell me not to talk about this issue in front of the media
http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/no-promises-to-halt-aleppo-bloodshed-kerry-says-1.1817115
No promises to halt Aleppo bloodshed, Kerry says
I give the Russian’s credit that they have such a strong military and defense base for an economy the size of Korea/Australia. In reality, it should be much smaller, about the size of Korea’s to be more sustainable. Its the reason why they withdrew many of their forces from Syria. not because mission accomplished, but wallet issues. These are facts, any disagreement about the facts are coming from the usual suspects of people who hold too much pride in their favorite country.
You keep repeating SK/Australia has GDP. where these two countries entire intellectual capital, labor, trade routes completely depended on outside. who built LNG plants for Australia? who works in design and software of SK firms.
There are more forces in Syria than before. including full maintainance and weopon support to Syrian airforce. that’s why they can now operate round the clock. Russia is fully determined to defeat $8T worth of Arab money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnxJksTJjU
As for Ukraine. the Russia vs Ukraine issue is between them. It has nothing to do with China. China does not need to support one or the other. It is their problem.
THat said, Ukraine has been an important business partner in the past, some things in Chinese defense would not have been possible with out Ukranian cooperation in the 90s. If there’s a good business opportunity with Ukraine, like selling the L-15, then China should go for it. Russia already sells weapons to China’s enemies like India and Vietnam. It is only fair.
China is in no position to sell anything of substance to Ukraine.
I doubt Ukraine can built engines without Russia parts. Those Yak-130 class engines were part of Salut-MotorSich project.
China fear western democracy and Arab/Turkish blackmail. It will always hide behind Russia.
US has big trade with Germany but it rubishes every policy that Germany propose and that from most liberal president. The trade of China with Russia allows it to bargain harder with Arabs on energy prices and banking. There is alternative routes. For China countries like Turkey/Ukraine/EU has no practical worth. Germany is now to beholden to Chinese auto sales. we have to see how big will be fine for diesel gate.
What influence? China’s much richer & more powerful. Why should it kow-tow to Russia?
Russia certainly much richer and much powerfull and far less depended. just look at Crimea bridge/power line. currency swaps. these are the tools necessary to carry big stick in EU and Middleast.
http://www.reuters.com/article/russia-china-yamal-idUSL5N17W2G8
the only reason China will join such project is to spy on Ukraine and make it even more corrupt with Chinese money.
As compared to teh oh so super sophisticated systems on the Mi-28 right? All battle proven. And the Apaches systems never got upgraded and it doesn’t even have the Longbow radar either. I mean you are so full of cr@p, its not even funny.
battle proven against what? there is not single attack helicopter that is battle proven against even half decent air defenses systems.
So because India is a member of BRICS, it is an “enemy of the US” and “cannot sustain 22 helicopters” because “sanctions” and “customer didn’t choose anything”. Dude, what are you smoking?
it is to squeeze money out of for past deficits. Every thing you buy US made today if you don’t create positive trade balances in future. you will be hit with a stick.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/275290-trumps-nato-criticism-wins-positive-reviews
Either they pay up, including for past deficiencies, or they have to get out. And if it breaks up NATO, it breaks up NATO,”
China/Germany incredibly rich they can put up the money but India it will have to pay Arab prices for its equipment.
http://news.forexlive.com/!/us-puts-china-japan-and-germany-on-unfair-advantage-currency-watch-list-20160501
ICYMI – US puts China, Japan, Germany (+others) on unfair advantage currency watch list
No, actually lost in several parameters, deal with it.
there is not even single parameter that it lost.
Yeah, when India chooses Russian gear, Indian trials ok. When India does not select Russian gear or Indian equipment proves to be better in any criteria, Indian trials have errors. Your claims are so stupid, its a wonder you can’t even realize the irony on your own.
India trials always have errors that’s why every thing is delayed 20 years.
ROTFL, the Indian Army is still looking for Indian Arjun partners to fix the “successful” T-90. They buy the T-90 because its cheap, 67% of the spares and assemblies were in line with the T-72 and given the issues with the T-90, the army fleet turned out to be anything but strong.
As things stand, Arjun systems houses have been asked to make T-90 ammo, fire control system, commanders panoramic sight, ERA and armor plates. Gun barrel replacement will also be localized most probably at Bharat Forge. The Israelis, heck even the Americans may be roped in to fix the T-90s overheating and lack of proper environmental control. That’s one issue that’s not going anyway soon.
T-90 is cheap. do you even know its price in 2016?. T-90 does not even have problem in Sahara or Turkmen desert let alone in India.
You have a poor grasp of geography. Bothe the Baltic and Black seas are bordered mainly by NATO-member countries or by countries which are more closely aligned with NATO and the USA. In both seas the Russian Federation has only a minority section of the coastline.
It is not about coast line but missile and airpower. war in black sea/ Mediteranean mean the rest of countries are landlocked as no ship can survive 21st century missiles. missile ranges are increasing and sizes are decreasing. so fighter jets can carry more of them for saturated attacks.
in less than 5 years Russia is going to completely changed its trade routes. read this whole pipelines, canals and arctic passage. there is practically zero tolerance for Turkey.
Russians ‘barrel roll’ over another U.S. Air Force plane
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/29/politics/russians-barrel-roll-air-force-plane/index.html
Any reason why they send a Flanker to intercept RC-135 in intl airspace , is this a common practise to send fighter and does Russia conduct Rec Mission in Baltic and NATO send their fighter ?
Russia is conducting recon mission near Israel and there is bargaining with arabs. I don’t think there is any advance equipment in Baltic or Nato except for those two F-22 in Romania. so whats the point of recon mission.
I took this photo at MAKS 2005 – ELEVEN years ago…. that’s some gestation period….
Ken
helicopter also need to be more reliable than jet fighter. helicopter can potentially do 20 to 30 sorties per day compared to 2 or 3 for fighter.
Vietnam South Korea, The Philippines and Japan are more or less allied with the USA in this particular dispute with China over this issue. It’s not like the US are ‘uninvited’ in this area.
China can very easily shaft these countries of East Asia. starting with Filipino labor in Middleast. infact by acting tough China will increase its exports even more.
China build drones that are highly in demand. China built all the telecom and internet infrastructure along with advanced internet management. big banks/markets to absorb SWF.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/China_exported_military_drones_to_10_nations_report_999.html
China exported military drones to 10 nations: report
The drones are named Cai Hong, or Rainbow, with the bestselling CH-3 capable of firing missiles 10 kilometres (six miles) from a target and staying in the air for more than 10 hours, the report said.“One of our clients in Africa uses each of its CH-3s about 100 hours on average each month,” Shi told the newspaper, which is published by the government
The academy is seeking an export licence for a new CH-5 model capable of launching air-to-surface missiles and laser-guided bombs, Shi added.
http://www.saudiaramco.com/en/home/news-media/news/collaboration-on-technology.html
Collaboration on technology