JSRYou basically regurgitated what he said. It’s interesting to see the sensors migrate from prototype to prototype. The latest one has dorsal and ventral dircom-looking sensors and the maws-looking sensors disappeared. They also picked up new wingtip antenna. From some angles the nose to back may be going through some minute changes, too. Hard to believe this frame isn’t much larger than the MiG-35, but sports a pair of Al-31’s. It will be a monster performer with the engines that is is supposed to get in the long run.
they also claiming reduced fuel consumption. so long range is expected. no need to create oversize engine that will make oversize weight aircraft.
http://www.uk-odk.ru/eng/presscenter/odk_news/?ELEMENT_ID=2307
JSRThe Russian engine for HJT-36 trainer has put in a strong performance
Do you have a source for the Adour’s MTBO (or similar metric) at the Hawk’s or Alpha Jet’s IOC?
resource enhanced can have different meaning. It is the unscheduled removal rate that can slow down flight tests. . infact the inferior Salut engine in Yak-130 production now approaching 100 trainers.
It is just lack of experience and lack of money on India side that it cannot make 10 to 20 prototypes simultaneously to certify a plane.
After 1000 engines delivered unscheduled removal rate was 0.15 per 1000 hrs. so it is highly likely that at beginning this figure was way higher.
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1982/1982%20-%202707.PDF
The original Larzac has
now accumulated over a quarter
of a million operational
flight hours in the Alpha Jets
of nine air forces. The first
engine went into service three
years ago, and around 1,000
had been delivered by September.
Removal rate of engines,
says the programme
manager is down to 0.15 per
1,000 flight hours.
JSRAn engine with a MTBO of 300 hrs is garbage, especially for a trainer. A trainer usually flies 1000+ hrs a year due to multiple students using the same plane
300 hr MTBO engine. from where this number comes. Hawk/Alpha jet those all got certified with similar MTBO engine.
JSR… I do not want to downgrade the Russian technology and even in mind of the older designs like Tu-204 and Il-69 all hampered by political, financial and so on issues, it is simply not an issue of high composites percentage or a new so far undeveloped engine with superior statistics, it’s a matter of performance and reliability into a seller and its products. It’s a matter of livecircle-service and maintainance, a matter of numbers sold to foreign customer and as such simply a matter thrust, respect and maybe even faith.
Sukhoi Superjet has 99% reliability in Mexico.
http://www.scac.ru/en/mediacenter/sixth-sukhoi-superjet-100-delivered-to-interjet17-03-2014/2014/
The other two were built are from Soviet times and cannot be modernized to 21st century. Superjet is getting close to 40 aircraft production in year. No Embarer/Bombardier comes close to it for single country content.
As such I highly daubt that even with superior performance (at least on paper) the MS-21 will be not even as succesful as the A.320neo or B737MAX even with maybe slightly higher prices or lower performance (which I don’t expect).
it may not get the numbers of A320NEO/B737NG in beginning but later its numbers of start surpassing it.
C919 delayed to 2018. so even massive amount of money spent it will not enter service ahead of MS21. and Colloboration is only option. so its better to cut short losses on C919 and join MS21 project.
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/chinese-commercial-plane-maker-faces-delays-20140521-00575
Separately, the Comac official on Wednesday confirmed that the Chinese aircraft maker has signed a pact with Russia’s state-owned United Aircraft Corp. to jointly develop a new widebody plane, a move that could help the two nations better compete against the established players.
And regarding this new airplane: If it indeed has to compete with the 787/777 and A35, when will it appear on the market ? What sum will be invested into this project for the next years ??? … and tell me one mayor international carrier that will buy it from an so far unknown design team ??
Deino
It will be superior to A350/787 if similar investments are made.
JSRSorry, but again Your typical propaganda.
“China neither has the money or technology to contribute to this project” … but especially money-wise surely more than Russia. Or give me a break, where are these high- and fast flying civil projects from Russia, that are so much comparative and even more competitive to the products from Airbus and Boeing ??? The Sukhoi RRJ falls off behind all Western reginal types is is repeatedly under redesign to archive what it once promised … IMO these are the same lame “kind of announcements that Russian routinely make about” their new carrier batle groups, a MiG-31 successor, the new long range bomber …. and so on and esp. in the civil sector this list is even longer and an even bigger shame for Russia.
As such I’m really interested in what will come out of Your proposed super-duper MS-21 – already by now falling far off behind the latest Airbus and Boeing types – which tries just now to archieve what Airbus and Boeing did already decades ago.
Therefore fogive me to be more than seceptical if I’m not as excited like You when I read – one again and again – that Russia will develop a “[wide-body, long-range aircraft] to compete with American and European-manufactured aircraft.”
I really do not want to bash on Russia, its Aerospace procucts and esp. former products, but we should be realistic to post such statements …
Deino
SSJ as much competitive as anything else in that class with 12% composite in aerostructure. airplane certified with 4 prototypes in 2 years. the same performance as Boeing did with 20 airplanes and $32b.
MS-21 has 40% composite structure. the highest in its class. both A320NEO and B737NG has far less composite. so how you know it is falling behind anything?. infact components developed for MS-21 can be used for SSJ. that’s new way of developing airplanes. first developed all the components and than fly the plane.
http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2014/5/7/2313/
Chirikov noted that the share of foreign-produced components in SSJ-100 aircraft is high, but Russian-produced components, which are being developed in the network of MS-21 project, may be used to replace them if necessary.
http://www.4-traders.com/PERMSKIE-MOTORY-OAO-9624306/news/Permskie-Motory–MC-21-300-aircraft-with-PD-14-engines-passed-mockup-stage-successfully-18327147/
23.04.2014 MC-21-300 aircraft with PD-14 engines passed mockup stage successfully
10% composite is barely touching SSJ and that was project of shoe string budget time from a decade ago. and offcourse cost has to be brought down. why costs need to be brought down by comac?
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/picture-comac-installs-autoclave-for-c919-composite-398724/
Initially, Comac had intended to produce over 15% of the aircraft with composite materials, but this was later reduced to under 10%.“We brought down the use of composites to bring down costs and time and also because of safety, as the composites’ maturity must be able to meet our needs,” Dang said
JSREmbraer signs $3.26 bln KC-390 order with Brazil Air Force
May 20 (Reuters) – Brazil’s Embraer SA , the world’s biggest maker of regional jets, signed a contract to supply 28 KC-390 cargo aircraft to Brazil’s Air Force, according to a statement on Tuesday.
The deal, worth 7.2 billion reais ($3.26 billion), will enter the planemaker’s firm order book following the completion of final paperwork, which should occur within 90 days, the statement added.
($1 = 2.21 Brazilian reais) (Reporting by Asher Levine; Editing by David Gregorio)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/20/embraer-orders-idUSE5N0MP00320140520
this thing is expensive even for 28 aircraft order.
JSRAny idea what size this bird will have or for what market it is designed for ??? Will it be a competitor to the A350 / B787 or still smaller between the C919 / MS21 and the larger ones mentioned above ?
Deino
Russia has active project 2020. that covers both long haul and medium haul and all the way to supersonic technologies.
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2013/10/21/266123.html
http://rt-chemcomposite.ru/en/novosti/1931
China neither has the money or technology to contribute to this project. it is same kind of announcements that Russian routinely make about Indian participation in PAKFA.
once you look at C919/MS21 project comparision that China should not even enter into Civilian airline projects.
JSRAMRAAM technology is like 40 year old. it has little relevance for missiles built now. I have read that PAK-FA range is twice of Flanker at supersonic speeds.
your ignoring advancement in MIG-31 due to light weight avionics and improved engine performance.
JSRBut it is just a modernization of a plane built to patrol huge (some of them uninhabitable) border regions of SSSR and to get to the interception point as fast as possible and intercept bombers and/or their cruise missiles. Here I’m also presuming that due to the climate and the huge area to be covered, it would be too costly (or even in some parts almost impossible) to place AND maintain sufficient number of air defense positions. The other fighters you mention don’t have such range/speed ratio as they were not specialized for that.
The primary missiles of the MiG-31 are big and heavy and thus not that maneuverable so could be easier dodged by fighters; also are probably rather expensive to be wasted on lower-probability pot-shots at fighters when you have fighters and missiles designed for that. Sure, you’ll be able to put RVV-SDs (R-77 derivative) and maybe RVV-MDs (R-73 derivative) on the BMs, but it doesn’t mean that their primary mission will change in any way and that they will be intended to be used to intercept fighters. For that, they would still have to get too close for comfort (the active radar missiles like e.g. R-77s have rather small radars so they are not really so fire-and-forget if you aim them at modern fighters and you want them to have a chance of finding a target) and the risk of losing important defense assets is just too great when you have other and better suited options.
MIG-31BM primary missiles are not that big. only 510kg for RVV-BD. that’s not a lot. Su-35 has greater range and it has ET also. PAK-FA that will have even greater range due to its sleek profile. Range/Radar performance/data links is no longer an issue.
it is the kinematic and altitude advantage of MIG-31 that other fighter lacks. and you don’t need that against cruise missiles/bombers.
JSRYour devotion to your version of reality is kind of endearing in a way, but it has little to do with the real world. There hasn’t been a single window where sending Mig-31s against F-15s would be a good idea. What part about the Mig-31 being designed to engage bombers and cruise missiles is lost on you? Its principal armament would very likely be next to useless against an F-15 and we already know the reverse is not true. Further, if the US agreed even slightly with your assessment they would have developed a counter to the Mig-31 back in the 80s….
MIG-31BM is not related to bomber/cruise missiles. first there are not many bombers and second advances in air defences and fighter radars like in Su-35/SU-30SM that can target low rcs missile.
MIG-31BM lighter modern avionics and enhanced engines will give much greater kinematic energy. it is not just upgrading aircraft but providing simulator complex on each airbase. so it is very comprehensive work of training. I believe it has decisive edge in air combat.
JSRI’ve in Russia many times. Compaired to Norway, the common corruption in Russia is very visible.. dunno how many times the traffic cops stopped us and “Robbed” us..
that is the visible corruption on street level. it is the invisible corruption at higher level that is more dangerous. the decision impacts are not seen in decades. This corruption perception index will not even know the bond market and corporate debt or low quality of education. when you have low quality of education they will keep electing incompetents or try to engage labor for short term money. there is no persistence for long term complex projects.
two less corrupt.
http://spytalkblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/gulf-states-face-humanitarian-disaster.html
JSRCountries that are beholden to outside world are considered less corrupt based on your link. you can practically ignored the link.
Turkey/Saudi is less corrupt than Russia. Or even Australia basically reduced to raw material export country to only one country. the amount of waste and incompetence in these countries is beyond imagination. and certainly they will not be making there own passenger and cargo planes.
http://en.ecar-airbus.ru/projects/a330-200-gmf-development-projects/
A330-200 GMF PROJECTS WAS IMPLEMENTING FROM 2007 TO 2010 YEARS. 85% OF DESIGN MODIFICATION WAS IN ECAR RESPONSIBILITY
JSRhow exactly it is waste of resources?. Russia is the least corrupt state when you look at big picture.
building more IL-96/Tu-204 has following advantages until there replacements comes on line.
1. Keep production running so skilled labor force and experienced gain in operational testing.
2. Provide air transport to entire government and military to ensure they travel in bug free airlines for hours and no one can listen to there planning/conversation. Time and secrecy is money.
3 large production run has it own benefit to have ready airlines incase there is embargo from Boeing/Airbus or Russia want to raise titanium prices for them. This is bargaining.
http://americanews.ru/en/h11/17055.html
Russian discount (Boeing sold to Aeroflot planes for half price)
The aircraft will be delivered to the IV quarter of 2012, II quarter 2016 The maximum value of the deal – $ 1.156 billion, indicated in document. That is, Aeroflot, which became the first customer in the new Russian aircraft of this type, they were treated by 46.7% cheaper than the catalog price.It’s incredibly big discount – usually it does not exceed 20-30% of the catalog price, even during the crisis Boeing is not much increased discounts, preferring to lower production volumes, said the head of analytical department of “airport” Oleg Panteleyev
JSRPoint is there has never been any Dassault offer…
I was not referring to the offer but the quantity. It is clear irak larger GDP growth and large labor pool allows it to have bigger airforce over long term. so not selling to them shows lack of intelligence.
JSRyou take the bet?
bet on what? All said that Qatar does not have the surplus of money that it can afford more Rafales than Irak.
first is lower labor and water costs enable Irak to operate greater number of airplanes without expensive external contractors/pilots.
best bet for Dassault is to start supplying that 1 squadron of Rafale to Irak
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