I was wondering about this, thanks.

I think it’s safe to assume that a twin-engine modern commercial airliner will offer superior life cycle costs to an evolved four-engine 1960s military cargolifter, much as was the case in the tanker competition.

commercial airline only has superior life costs when you used it like commmericial airline. otherwise with added weight it will need extra long runways. so it is not even ideal for AWACS.

Very interesting, the price hike for il76 airframes is really starting to bite. No doubt Airbus military will make an offer more then likely utilising an Israeli radar. I can see Boeing offering a Wedgetail variant as well.

Interesting times!

This looks like another MMRCA saga.
Boeing has practically lost money on Wedgtail project. Any further export will be way more expensive.
Airbus is simply not in position to offer its products. AWACS/Cargo coversion takes a lot of manual labor hrs and its lost profits for active production lines.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/airbus-eads-uac-and-irkut-suspend-a320a321-passenger-to-freighter-programme-52831
Airbus said: “Recent market developments, including the success of the upcoming A320neo, have resulted in more demand for A320 passenger aircraft and less for freighter versions in this aircraft category. In addition, strongly growing passenger traffic results in high demand for used A320 Family aircraft, thus reducing the amount of aircraft available for conversion. Against the backdrop of these market changes and the increasing pressure on the P2F business case, the partners have concluded to stop and freeze the P2F programme

I told you who did the structural tests JSR, Beriev as part of the contract for the A-50I Phalcon. Those structural changes were made to the airframe and delivered to China from Russia in 2000 – you can’t deny that there many photos of that aircraft in from 1999 with those structural changes and plenty with radar from 2003. China had started an AESA program in the 90’s and the and they had a domestic AESA available for their ships by 1998. The radar probably used technology transferred from the Ukraine, Russia and Israel. Again nobody is denying that China based their indigenous designs on foreign technology transfer. China had AESA radar technology available for the crash program that led to the KJ2000.

Its delivered to China but how you know it is empty airframe?. You don’t even know the delivery date of airframe. Just assuming it went to China in year 2000.
but you constantly ignore the A-50E agreement and improvement to it. off course you haven’t seen the inside of aircraft. They did not get license for changes nor the radar tech.
AESA programe in 1990s? where is that evidence. They have very little budget for radar tech. they were importing Zhuk radars for fighters to copy them.

Again how is that video a joke, I see a fully working aircraft production facility. How is it a joke? Come on please do explain JSR, we need a laugh. So you think China FAKED that video, that is what you are saying isn’t it!

Nothing to do with aircraft modification and tests. design and strength tests is all computers.

The truth is you can’t stand idea that China has a domestic aerospace industry. All you bring is silly theories and links to unrelated thinks like the ARJ21 and waffle about the Mig-35 vs the J-15. Yes AESA are hard to develop, China has said as much many times and it is well known that they have used technology transfer and a degree of industrial espionage to get where they are now. You can’t change the fact that the KJ2000 exists, it is actual flying hardware and you can do nothing about it JSR.

silly theories. Look at the past 20 years aviation projects.
L-15 simply license and still its production/development is slower than Yak-130.
ARJ-21 the less said the better.
MIG-29K certified (enhanced engines/spine) with external loads ahead of J-15. (that despite constraint of developing under Indian budget/requirements).
I never made comparision of MIG-35 to J-15.
MIG-35 is demonstration of fighter AESA in 2007 for export. Ship/AWACS AESA is much lower tech. SAAB could built Saab 340 in 1990s but not Gripen AESA.
based on these results. its very unreasonable that that China can modify 4 A-50E ahead of Russia delivering 3 A-50EI for India. It was Russia that built 25 A-50 AWACS and modified A-50I first time without giving license. so the only logical conclusion is that all those 4 A-50E are exported to China along with improvements and every one knows that there will be 4 A-50E in year 2000. when no one had clue what will happen to the deal.

The prototype KJ2000 first flew in 2003 with a fixed radome containing an AESA radar so clearly they did do it. They had OEM help in the form of the work they paid Beriev to redesign and rebuild the il76 to carry the Elta Phalcon. China substituted the Phalcon for an indiginous radar developed by the 14th institute. Lets have a look at a picture of that aircraft again shall we JSR and compare it to an A-50:

KJ-2000 flew in 2003 with what inside? OEM never transfer tech for modifying the plane. OEM only worked directly with ELTA for A-50I.

Notice the fixed dish radome with three arrays and the large aft fuselage strakes. This is the prototype KJ2000 that flew in 2003. This is a known fact witnessed and photographed by many people.

Now lets look at an A-50

what has A-50U has any thing to do with A-50E and its upgrade to AESA?. Just like Su-27SM/Su-35 has nothing to do with Su-30MKI for a decade.

Here we see a Russian airforce A-50, notice it has a rotating dish radome and lacks aft fuselage strakes. There are numerous detail differences.

Yup it has rotating dish. it does not mean Russia did not develop AESA for China.
Ruaf is not stupid to create a dysfunctional platform of putting heavier AESA radar on underpowered aircraft with no glass cockpit, high powered engines and advance flight controls. Its not a show off airforce.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2011/8/10/462/
The development of antenna and radar for new AWACS aircraft has already been completed. “It is a different radar as compared to А-50, with an active phased antenna array

Russia AESA AWACS radar is already completed. it was only disclosed in summer of 2011. they used experianced gain from developing AESA for China. That is very similar approach of developing medium range SAM with Korea. Russian version like S-350 comes much later.

Nobody here is denying that the Chinese didn’t use information from Beriev to build the KJ-2000. The Chinese had paid Beriev to develop the structural changes needed to install the Phalcon AESA system, Beriev delivered that airframe to China. The Chinese installed their own radar on that airframe and then proceed to adapt a further three airframes with their own refinements. This is really simple JSR. If the Chinese were operating an A-50E variant from 2003 on it would have significant structural differences. There are thousands of pictures now of the four KJ-2000 in Chinese service and they are significantly different from an A-50E. They look very similar to an A-50EI which is entirely logical considering the Chinese had purchased a very similar aircraft until it was cancelled by Israel under American pressure.

China neither has the money nor the technical capacity to put own radar own A-50E that time. situation was completely hopeless. whole world knew that China will get 4 A-50E and that is the number until this date.

website are not updated? Vega website is very updated one interms of things they produced or producing.
Your confusing later AESA upgrade to A-50E with original Year 2000 exports. None of your pictures or video has any relevance to Year 2000. My links have proven beyond doubt that there will be 4 A-50E maximum and that’s what China got in the end. None of your links are manufacturer website and there is no time line of implementation the project.
If China could independently maintain (which is far easier than modifications to structure) they would not need refurbishment. This is year 2014 not Year 2000. You are in big denial.

http://rostec.ru/en/news/1008
Russia’s state arms exporting agency Rosoboronexport and aircraft manufacturer Ilyushin have delivered the first of 10 Il-76MD military transports to China.
A contract for the purchase of 10 was signed in 2010, and by November 2012, Russia had selected seven worthy examples from its inventory. The Il-76s will serve as an interim measure to expand China’s fleet of the heavy airlifters until the redeveloped Il-476 version becomes available. The IL-76 can carry a payload of 40 tons over a range of 5,000 kilometers in less than six hours.
The aircraft were purchased used and underwent repairs, maintenance and minor modernizations prior to transfer to China

India’s MiG-21s are probably are no older than NATO’s early trance delivery F-16A/B/AM and are possible younger than most single-seat F-15 found in US, Japanese, Saudi, Israeli service.

I don’t see why anyone would compare India’s MiG-21 – mainly built in the 1980s – with the F-104, which were mainly built in the 1960s – almost 2 different generations.

That bad record is for non 1980s built.
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/1ROhzHzNVE9AAQC0xJdnHJ/MiG21-FL-flies-into-Indian-Air-Force-history.html

Let me try then..

When the A-50E deal With China was flopped. China then proceeded to procure regular Il-76MD Airframes directly from Rosoboronexport, and then China adopted and renamed them as KJ-2000 after some extensive modification done in China.

It is only fair to observe the long time China have used on their KJ-2000 and now the Y-20 airframes.

If you read about the problematic programe of A-50 you would understand what i am talking about.
The A-50 was a highly prioritized program by Soviet at the time, but it was also heavily deleyed.
First flight of prototype A-50 was in December 19, 1978. First operational A-50 was in 1985, but even then it was severly Limited on its mission specs, it was not until 1989 that the A-50 AWACS was fully commisioned by RuAF requirements.

There was an proposed Upgrade called the A-50M planned back in the 90’s, but due to bad funding at the time, it only resulted in some Air refueling adoptation.

The A-50U Upgrade are build and developed on the A-50M, but obviously time has moved on and newer digital systems had to be inducted.
NPO Vega started the A-50U back in 2002, but it was not properly funded, so it has taken all these years up to 2009 for NPO Vega to make first flight of the first prototype of A-50U ‘RED 33’ airframe.
And first operational A-50U airframe was handed over in October 31, 2011.

Russia is now operating Three A-50U.. not a very impressive figure, its one each year..
So in light of this, i’d say China has done fairly well on their own, KJ-2000 AWACS design.

A-50U is much more advanced than A-50E. It took 3 years after first flight to enter service.
one per year upgrade is very fast implementation. .

Only two countries can create full specification airborne control system.

http://www.vega.su/
Application of technical solutions for the improvement of the A-50 design was based on the latest achievements of domestic electronics: used modern electronic component base and high-performance computing facilities.
The staff of JSC “Concern” Vega “has once again confirmed a reputation as one of the leaders of the Russian defense industry in the development of AWACS aircraft systems. Such full-scale complexes radar surveillance and guidance alone can create only two countries – the U.S. and Russia.

A-50E was created in year 2000.

http://www.vega.su/production/detail.php?ID=15
Учитывая опыт эксплуатации самолёта А-50, предприятие в 2000 г. разработало проект модернизации радиотехнического комплекса этого самолёта, а также авиационного комплекса дальнего радиолокационного обнаружения и управления А-50Э, предназначенного на экспорт. Этот комплекс так же, как и А-50, предназначен для контроля воздушной и наземной обстановки, взаимодействия с наземными командными пунктами АСУ видов Вооруженных сил, наведения истребителей на воздушные, морские и наземные цели, радиолокационного обеспечения управления воздушным движением, сопровождения особо важных (литерных) самолётов, контроля в экстремальных ситуациях. Комплекс А-50Э спроектирован на основе новейших научно-технических достижений в области радиоэлектроники

China has extremely poor record of aircraft certification especially large size. A-50E is very well known in press.
there was lot of cooperation in late 90s between Russia and China. you can see from Kamov chopper to Subs.
This thing will be proven with extremely slow certification process of Y-20 even with light weight small engines. any oversize engines they can forget about certification for next 15 years.