JSRmore substantial as in ‘not every navy has them”
Alot of airforces have same planes does not mean they are similar effective. larger ship does not add any thing as radar horizon cannot go beyond certain point. Ship is not an aeroplane that change its altitude.
JSRSubs aside, its corvettes, frigates & landing ships …. nothing more substantial. Interesting.
i am not sure what is mean by substantial. as long as frigates/diesel electric subs carry land attack cruise missiles. they are far more effective than traditional battleship.
JSRYes, Russia is strong and has a bright future — brighter than Japan, certainly. Lots of people underestimate Russia but going to the other extreme by comparing it to China doesn’t add credibility. Adjusted for MIC, geopolitics, etc. Russia is likely to emerge and remain as the third or fourth most important state in the global system for the forseeable future. No need to get greedy. :p
$700b in military products in Russia does not mean if some other country spend same amount will achieve same results. As other countries don’t have that efficiency and consolidation of industries. And certainly lacks key ingredients on scale like titanium, diamonds, palladium combined with cheap hydro energy and low tax on labor etc.
http://indrus.in/economics/2013/03/12/grand_plans_for_russian_military_aviation_22839.html
Serial production has shaved 250 million roubles off the price of each Sukhoi-34, which cost more than one billion roubles apiece.
There is degree of confidence that breakthrough in new aviation field production is near.
http://www.avionics-intelligence.com/news/2013/02/21/uac-to-supply-300-new-jets-to-russian-defense-ministry-in-2013-2015-part-2.html
“The United States and Israel are the leading drone makers. We lag behind slightly although much has been done to prepare for drone production,” Mikhailov said.
China don’t make that much high quality aviation products so titanium consumption until this point was low. So once they started international standard plane. They have to import titanium from Russia.
http://www.china-metal-stamping.com/easyblog/and-to-the-chinese-enterprises-c919-aircraft-supply-titanium-alloy-stamping-parts.html
simply health care costs in China will be many times more than Japan due to bad environment so bankruptcy of nation will be even faster than Japan. and there is desertification going on in China so China will have to import fresh water from Russia. It already started with electricity.
Japan has practically given up on military products as most of its products now have US content . Japan does not design a products all the time thinking of changing engine. The cost of every fighter/trainer/helicopter/Transport (aka Y-20) will blow out.
dont believe in funny accounting of China aviation product being cheaper as simply they dont have economies of scale and lack of experiance prevent it from certifiying even a obsolete product on time. This is the best case scenario i presented.
JSRA declining population? :p
declining population is not shared by russian govenment. See $770b arm programe. You need highly skill labor and software developers in millions to achieve end result. and this over the top of professional contract soldiers needed to operate it effectively. This arm programe will have major impact on Middleast and subsequent rise in Oil price. That will squeeze Japan/China budgets.
Japan/China lack money, skilled labor and industrial capacity. All they can do is import majority of weopons and transport systems. They don’t have any thing in common with Russia
JSRMore internal fuel isn’t really needed thanks to CFTs. With CFTs, an A/G load and 3 tanks, MTOW is already exceeded. At least thats the case with USAFs F-15E hence they usually fly with 2 tanks.
More likely than not, the F-15SA has gained weight and it uses the outer wing stations so…
Also, deleting the air brake to add some fuel wouldn’t be my first choice. There is still some empty space in an Eagle. Don’t know how much of that is used in any F-15E variant, but I’m pretty sure the outer wing area is still empty as it wouldn’t make much sense to install A/G avionics there.
Edit: No. 106 is dry: http://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/f15e.gif
AESA/IRST pods will likely increase weight of fighter and with same engines
its performance will be reduced.
It says its a Tornado replacement.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-2010-saudi-shopping-spree-06520/
JSRSaudis and other nations who are banned from real 5th generation aircraft due to political reasons.
i am not sure they are officially banned from 5G fighters rather they cannot afford it at this point due to all other expenses. It is just acqusition cost but import of skill labor for maintainance that make it expensive. and also they may have to put alot more money if they want USN carrier protection. as Obama budget allow one carrier at a time at this point.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/11/dxb09-f-35-steals-rafale-thund.html
F-35 Lightning steals Rafale thunder in Dubai
JSRBTW that was a good post earlier thobbes. Only I never meant to imply that Indonesia will become anything like the size of China. Rather they will be in the second-tier of nations along with Russia, Brazil, Mexico and Japan.
what has Russia anything in common with Japan/China. Russia science feeds other countries. and still surplus/money/ scientist available for military complex witthout creating debt on many levels.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnshaughnessy/2013/03/13/samsung-gets-ahead-by-using-cheap-russian-science/
Samsung Gets Ahead Through Its Russian Connection
JSRIf their demand is so urgent, and their is no option (stealth), then they have to buy it at an increased price and take some early deliveries. Not all their jets would be at the expense of concurrency as many will be built after IOC has been reached so would be ready to fly off to turkey straight after production.
it is the lack of confidence in programe that are not even ordering 2 or 3 test aircraft. $1b investment and no aircraft to order. and some claims regarding F-35 radar/avionics and its superiorty against ground targets will surely benefit them alot more than outdated F-16.
JSRMost partners have doubts regarding affordability. Turkey may choose to buy it later, after seeing the cost come down significantly rather then commiting itself to a jet, that they cannot afford, or that would be significantly more expensive initially then they had earlier thought. They would have gotten detail breifings about the capability of the F-35, had they thought it to be insufficient compared to their other “options” they could have not signed up as a partner.
Russia is building extensive survellence network around Turkey. and ultimately Su-35 will part of it. as it long range radar, high altitude and loiter time will enable it to observe Turkish F-16 flight pattern to make them ineffective in there bombing runs. Turkey will need Stealth planes sooner than any one else. if cost cannot be brough down in 2017 production than when?. There is simply no other options.
JSRYet, the whole point is. What have we seen to make us believe Russia has closed the gap with the US in Avionics???
Avionics? inlcude alot of things from radar system to software.
what we have seen is that after deployment of S-400 near to Turkey. Turkey has postponed purchase of JSF. They are simply unsured about investing significant budget on some thing that may not work against current system let alone of future. Turkey acquisition of JSF will give some clue about progress. IF F-35 has IOC in 2015-2017. Turkey would have signed up rightaway for all its fighters.
Su-35 achieved 19km operational altitude. T-50 will be one step beyond that.
such speed & altitude will give significant advantage to weopons not to mention greate range on internal fuel gives more flexibility.
http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2013/1/16/1459/print/
JSRI think we are dealing with totally different levels of system maturity here, The F-35 would have flown thousands of hours, with its engine, radar, EOTS, HMD etc before it goes IOC. Only thing left would be one block of software which it would get after IOC. I think russians regard in PRODUCTION as totally different to US IOC so we cannot compare timelines here.
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It is not totally different level maturity but Sukhoi did smart thing. Su-35 is the closest to 5G fighter interms of radar, engine power, advanced flght controls with TVC, nearly identical cockpit, large internal fuel capacity. i think most of airframe strenght testing to cope with so much internal volume and TVC controls agility will directly contribute to manufacturing a 5G fighters. as 5G are heavier/draggier due to bigger engines/internal volume.
200 flights of T-50 and 250 Flights for flying labortories for subsystems. so they are counting flying labortories flights part of PAK-FA programme. when you look at full interview it says 25 to 30% yearly growth rate in revenue for UAC. so when T-50 enter service starting in 2016. It will have to meet that enhanced growth rates of fighter aircraft within in UAC. military production will still be 60% within UAC.
http://top.rbc.ru/pressconf/04/03/2013/847577.shtml
Another thing is there is no pressure to distribute work based on some one ordering aircraft or some political consideration. so supplier relationship is very stable.
JSRI agree that if loiter time is a priority then a subsonic flying wing design is difficult to beat. But I question how this fits in with Russian plans and requirements. For a long-range bomber I was envisioning strategic targets such as factories, bridges, power stations, etc. Loitering in the vicinity of e.g. a carrier battle group strikes me as a risky proposition, involving a confidence verging on arrogance that is not in keeping with general Russian philosophy which tends to assume operating from position of weakness or vulnerability.
loitering means several hundred kms from battlefield or aircraft carrier and use more powerfull sensors/jammers for survellence and battlefield management. they may also provide targeting information to Naval ships missiles. the point is somthing continously in air to keep an eye in sky and right away strike. you also to consider that advancements in cruise missiles speed/range/stealthness.
see Libya example. if US had B-1 patrolling in Mediteranean. atleast it could respond in time. UCAV cannot lift those heavy sensors/ long range missiles and generally have slower speed.
JSRGot cited proof of that JSR? I doubt it!
So now you are switching to saying it is a PESA but without PESA capabilities. Got proof of that? Look if you want to keep on digging it is no skin off my nose, it just ensures that we all have more entertainment laughing at your ignorance.
why you need proof for some thing so obvious. see asking for French help in tactical border war. satellites are for strategic recon. UAV/Fighter jets are for much closer to battlefield. electronic scanning radars have enhanced ground survellence capabilities. and this may be the reason for slow down in EF deal implementation as they simply not satisfied with its capabilities considering its high price.
I am in no doubt that Iraq will get AIM-9X and AMRAAM in the future it is only a matter of time the jet can take both missiles after the correct software upload. AIM-9M and AIM-7F Sparrow are adequate for their needs at the moment.
Iraq has passed budget with little money for Kurds.
in a matter of time when Russian weopons are delivered what will have there impact on Iraq internal/external situation as those weapons are likely to be used with more flexibility. and how US will continue supply weopons to such government.
JSRHang on hang on! So you are now going to say it is my opinion that the radar fitted to the E3 AWACS is a PESA?! Really you are going to be that childish?! That the AN/APY-1/2 is a PESA is in the public domain, heck it is even the wiki, don’t give me some silly comment about not knowing what is inside the radar or it looking like a PESA! Why would Westinghouse lie about the radar they were developing for the USAF?! Don’t you think they would notice that it wasn’t fitted with a PESA? Let alone the British, French, Japanese and Saudis?
You get caught making a factually incorrect statement so rather then hold up your arms and just saying “Whoops my mistake” you say it is my opinion and place a link to an Indian website that has utterly no relevance to this discussion and make a vague mention of the Saudis needing French help with Satellites.
It is almost cruel showing up how little you know!:D
It is only related to Saudi AWACS. That thing is severly downgraded and simply dont correspond to PESA capabilities.
France produced images from satellite that is more real time than all the Saudi airforce jets/awacs.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ig-icctY_enNpW-cO9qeUbhN31MA?docId=CNG.c475d315dd94dc3d274371ac27c49236.871
France supplied images for Saudi strikes in Yemen: reportA Saudi official recalls that by the first night of Sarkozy’s visit, detailed pictures of the Yemeni battle space began to move electronically to the Saudis,” the Post reported.
Using the satellite intelligence, the Saudis were able to track the rebels. “Saudi warplanes then attacked with devastating effectiveness,” the Post said, adding that within weeks the Huthis were requesting a truce, “and by February this chapter of the border war was over.”
JSRHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D
Oh man I almost can’t believe how stupid you have just made yourself sound! The Westinghouse AN/APY-1 and AN/APY-2 fitted to the E3 AWACS is … wait for it ….
A PESA!!!!!!!!!
Yep a Passive Electronically Scanned Aray radar! In one paragraph you yet again show you have ZERO knowledge of what you are talking about and shown yourself as a fool as well! Priceless…made my day!:D
Anyhow Saudi E3 have been going through RSIP which upgrades their performace, it is a mature and very capable platform. The level of situational awareness AWACS gives has been proven time and again in exercises and wars.
Datalinked Mig-29M with Ground Radars vs Datalinked F-15 with AWACS and Ground Radars…I take the F-15.
Saudis don’t trust western defence contractors JSR? The billions of dollars worth of contracts placed say otherwise.
Anyhow thankyou for continuing to prove your lack of knowledge for all our entertainment!
That is your opinion not a fact. as you certainly dont know what is inside those radars. Saudi needed French satellite help for imagery in border war with Yemen recently. so it means they got some thing that look outside PESA but not real capability of PESA. Saudi alway need external help for even very minor dispute. This capability of PESA radar. I am not saying all PESA radar are developed for such purpose.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories402.htm
Irak with growing oil production, more water and much better Oil sharing agreements is much more attractive option to be supported and also Irak provides the figure leaf of Arab country. If Iraq-Saudi got entangled it does not mean Saudis are going to fight Iraq only.
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