ChoxCheers, that’s good stuff – nice to hear the story from the man wot did it!
Chox‘Taff’ Holden himself has related this famous incident to us here on the forum
If anyone knows where this is in the archives, do let me know as I’d love to read his personal account.
Chox‘course it wouldn’t be the first time that a Lightning has managed to get airborne rather unintentionally. Duxford’s Lightning is famous for that notorious day at Lyneham…:)
ChoxThanks for that – I’ll get back to you asap. Like you say, it’s difficult to determine what is a “good” photo and what isn’t as it’s a subjective business. I tend to think that any pictures which haven’t appeared in books/magazines time and time again are definitely more interesting, even if they’re technically inferior. I think you can only look at a good photo so many times before you get a bit bored with it?!
ChoxHope you keep us posted with details on runs. I’d definitely like to see her “live” not only because of my book project, but because 458 was the one and only Lightning I ever managed to get a flight in, so she’s definitely an old friend!
Choxhmm, maybe it was another JP – this was some weeks ago, someone was wanting to repaint one in her old Syerston colours (silver with dayglow strips)? No matter – I’m all for repaints providing they’re done right!
ChoxThanks for the feedback guys. All contributions gratefully received as they say!
The precise content of the book is still open to question. Naturally, I’ll be obliged to trace the design and development history and service use, but I want to try and make the book as interesting as possible, rather than simply produce the same sort of thing that has been seen so many times before. I don’t think any readers would want to see just another re-tread of the same old stuff. So hopefully I will be able to find some interesting stories and accounts about the aircraft, as I think readers would be more interested in that kind of material.
As for photos, well the same applies – I guess I will have to use some well-known shots, but it would be nice to find some images that haven’t been seen if possible. I’m quite keen to find old RAF/MoD shots too if I can, as there used to be some great images, but so many have just disappeared over the years that most of ’em have been forgotten, which is a shame.
Anyway, thanks guys, and if anyone has any pictures, info, links, pointers to anyone with interesting stories etc., do please give me a shout.
[email]tpmclelland@yahoo.co.uk[/email]
Tim
ChoxNot sure who it was that I communicated about this aircraft some weeks ago? I said that I’m sure I have some photos (probably cuttings) of Syerston JP’s in the silver/dayglow strip scheme which it wore, including the Vipers aerobatic team scheme.
Any news on the aircraft?
ChoxIn the Cockpit? Dunno what that would be – nothing of that nature planned for the immediate future…
Choxold shape – not sure of the precise location. It’s NE Scotland somewhere, probably Moray Firth. The nose-on shot was on approach to Lossie but the 4-ship was a little earlier. Somewhere round there anyways!
ChoxGlad you like ’em – better dig some more out!
Yes, I took ’em – the Vulcan shot was from a Hercules side door, the Buccaneer four-ship from another Hercules side door, and the nose-on shot from a Hercules ramp. The tanking shot was from another Buccaneer rolling over the top of them. Wish I could take ’em all again with a flashy new digi cam!
ChoxJust to follow-up the comments re- Scampton in case anyone’s interested, the move to Leeming was an idea being thrown-about a year or so ago. The Reds told me that the idea wasn’t impractical (despite misleading gossip about the proximity of the A1, etc.) but they did say (as they still say) that they’d ideally prefer to stay at Scampton.
As for Valley, well the news comes from no less a quarter than Janes, so if you dispute it, I’d take it up with them! They’re generally right about such matters. Either way, they are moving out of Scampton, and I’m guessing it might even be next winter. CAS told local reporters that the team would stay in Lincolnshire no matter where they moved to but it seems that once again, his comments might prove to be incorrect!
The old story about the A15 is probably a bit of an urban myth. Yes it was diverted to allow the V-Bomber runway to be built, and technically it should be restored, but you have to assume that the Highways Department would see no practical reason for doing so. There’s also talk about the site being contaminated, but I think that is also probably just gossip.
I think that even if one excludes the information that we already have, it’s fair to assume that the MoD will dispose of the site as they can’t justify keeping it active simply for the RAFAT. So I’d be very wary of attempting to move any other aircraft there when there’s already a Buccaneer and a Su-22 that might well need to escape – somehow!
ChoxVX927 – sorry to go-off at a tangent here but I fear Scampton’s future isn’t going to be a good one, which is why the idea of even trying to move the Lightning to Scampton might not even be worth the effort.
Clearly, the Reds will leave. Even if by some miracle they were allowed to stay, their Hawks are only good for a few more years (I suspect even a decade would be pushing-it) and when the hawks go, then so does the team. In the meantime, it looks like they may well move to Valley either this year or next, in which case they won’t be coming back to Scampton even to use the airspace. Leeming was a possibility but the most recent “gossip” suggests this isn’t going to happen now.
Consequently, Scampton’s a lost cause. You’re right that there is some Heritage interest in the base, but only in parts of the remaining domestic site. The actual airfield is effectively redundant, and were it not for the cost of returning it to an acceptable standard, I suspect the MoD would have already disposed of it. I don’t know what HHA will do when the time comes, but I really can’t imagine that a company like HHA would be able to finance airfield operations on their own, so I guess they will have to leave too, although I can’t imagine where they could go.
It’s a real shame that somebody can’t step-in and save the airfield before it is allowed to decay. I seem to recall there was once some vague idea of creating a sort of Northern Outpost of the IWM but the idea seems to have drifted away again. With an airport at Kirmington and Finningley, I can’t imagine there’s even a case for using the field for civil ops, so I guess it will eventually become another new housing site.
As for the Lightning, it would be great if there was some way that the aircraft could remain at Binbrook, under cover, preferably in some sort of museum. If that isn’t a possibility, then Bruntingthorpe must be the most sensible destination – if there’s any way of actually getting her there!
ChoxQuite a few Canberras had different noses fitted from other aircraft so it’s quite likely that 904 received a different one, hence the confusion. The tip tank saga is odd I agree; every reference to the T.19 (and personal accounts) insist that although the tanks could be fitted, they were not “plumbed” to take fuel from them. Given that the T.19 was only a conversion, this seems odd, but then the T.11 didn’t carry tanks either. Consequently, it’s possible that the T.11 batch never had the fuel systen fully fitted, or maybe it was just left intact but unused (a bit like the Vulcan’s IFR system which was unsued for many years). Either way, the T.11 and T.19 certainly never flew with tanks fitted which is why I can never work out why Newark AM attached them! They’d be more appropriate on the B8 icing tanker as that machine did carry (silver) tip tanks sometimes.
If the new hanger is big enough to house the Vulcan, Hastings and Shackleton, I guess there might be ebough room to squeeze the Canberra (and maybe some others) in there too – hope so!
ChoxAh yes, the lovely Canberra T.19’s…
WH904 was in a fairly decent stage when it moved from Cambridge to Newark. I seem to recall that the tip tanks were attached after the aircraft had been at Newark for some time. I have no idea why – the T.19 wasn’t “plumbed” to carry them and I think only the Swedish aircraft ever did. I can vaguely remember asking someone at Newark about this and he didn’t come-up with any plausible reason why they’d been fitted. I also recall that they were planning to get the aircraft into good condition so that they could use the electrics, raise/lower the undercarriage on jacks, etc. Sadly, the aircraft seems to have been largely ignored.
As for the markings, they did indeed remove the 7 Squadron markings because NAM have a thing about trying to be local – so they naturally wanted to have 85 Squadron’s markings on the aircraft (it did serve with 85 as you say). All well and good, but I don’t think they see the wider picture. Most museum visitors don’t care about whether an aircraft is local or not. It seems pretty silly to physically remove existing markings (especially rare ones like 7 Squadon’s on WH904) in order to apply their own. But either way, they only ever did half the job and the dayglow patches were never re-applied. I believe they’re trying to get funds for another hangar, so hopefully one day WH904 might find a home indoors and receive a bit of TLC!
I’d heard about XA536 being with 7 Squadron for a time but I’ve never seen a photo of it, so I don’t know what markings it carried. I would assume it was silver, but as for the rest of the markings, I don’t know.
Maybe we should start a separate thread for 7 Squadron’s magnificent Canberras?!
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