madjock mcgrokAlthough this never happened when I worked on them- the nose was always secured to the ground- the recommended method was to remove as much snow as possible from the upper wing aft of man gears- done slowly and with care the aircraft should make a safe descent onto its nose- obviously all those involved should stand clear. It also looks like the Red Steer cover has popped- fortunately the aircraft is not a flyer otherwise the frame and lower skin will probably need replacing.
Saying that removal should be carried out as soon as possible as the airframe is not stressed for such loads. Many a winter at Waddo saw us up on the wings sweeping the snow off- fortunately the airbrakes were operable and we used them as tether points- still a bit dicey though. I would think the health and safety mob would have a purple fit if they had seen it.
Anyway best of luck with your endeavours- just be careful
Cheers
Madjock
madjock mcgrokHaving had a look at the photo’s again and look through the Vol6- Repair and Reconditioning AP- it is apparent that should some of the snow on the rear fuselage and adjacent area not be removed then further damage will acrue. Much of that area is secondary and tertiary structure while in the rear fuselage itself the primary structure consists of the longerons and the cross beams with primary frames at each end. Their purpose is to support the ECM cans when fitted and absorb the stress of the brake chute deploying.
By the looks of it NEAM has one thing in abundance thus why not remove the sleepers from under the nose and replace it with compacted snow which ends just short of the nose wheels. As I suspect the aircraft was delivered sans ECM and NBS its current weight is around the 90K mark instead of 102K -ish. Using compacted snow as the support will allow two things to happen
1] clearing the back end will allow the aircraft to lift off its rear end thus reducing the damage.
2] where possible use extended brooms to work around the wings to destress them.
3] with as much snow removed as possible from the upper surfaces and the aircraft resting on the snow pile it should be possible with care to start melting the snow pile slowly so that the Vulcan then rests as it should do.
4] once on the ground use the sleepers- lashed in bundles- to secure the aircraft via the nose u/c picketing point- believe me the aircraft and the leg were designed to take the stress.
5] keep a beady eye on it to stop it tilting again
The alternative it to wait for the thaw which will introduce large amount of water into the airframe and will require a crane and sling to put it back down safely on the ground.
A crazy idea maybe but if memory serves it has been done before many years ago.
Cheers
Madjock
madjock mcgrokJust another thought- before the aircraft is lowered it might be a good idea to have a look at the rear axle area of the bogies as they have been known to crack. We had to do a replacement of one that was seen to be coming adrift as the aircraft entered Delta 16. Oh what fun getting two main jacks out of MEAS in the winter and changing the thing- could we get the Hydraulic Bay boys out of their nice warm bay- no chance. All that nasty cold and snow about- all we got were the AP’s and tools. The upshot was a fleet wide NDT check which joined all the others !! I’ll have to dig out the fatigue folder for the Vulcan- as most will know the fatigue trials were carried out on the spare airframe and if memory serves any failures found on active aircraft they were added to the report- which runs to three very thick volumes !
Good luck with the lowering- if possible recharge the nose oleo and the tyres- should give the nose a bit of bounce!
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokJacking points are aft of the main u/c bays and window/green satin panels. Forward points are under the intake. All are covered by a circular plug about 2 inches in diameter with a screw in the centre- there should be a jacking symbol by each one- square box with legs if memory serves. Note there are secondary jacking points at the front- can’t remember if there are any aft. Given the light loading of the aircraft you can use either although don’t play mix and match. Take care in removing covers as the screw is also the locating point for the adaptor heads- these should be located on the drop down flap of the sixth seat.
Someone mentioned bits removal on delivery- much came from the power compartment and covered the engine and AAPP contactors- PFCU contactors and in some cases the ECM and NBS contactors.
HTH
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrok>>I’ve got the AP’s from the Avro 707 , Vulcans B1 & 2 on 1 dvd so we have constant access<<
If you get stuck I’ll send a diagram with positions marked if you wish- I thought it might be easier to describe their location and size.
Cheers
Mad Jock ex Waddo Line 101 Sqdn St Athan majors
madjock mcgrokSpock
Just a small word of caution about the location of the sling- I would suggest that either the nose trestle point or over the entrance door would be the best place- it might be worth noting that the aircraft will need some assistance to pass top dead centre- once over that point let the aircraft lead. Unfortunately as yours is to all intents a purposes a dead jet the option- ala XL361 at Goose- to pump fuel forward isn’t available. Anyway good luck with the lowering.
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrok>>Hopefully they can use jacks behind the main wheels<<
Personally I’d like to see how they will get jacks under the rear jacking points unless non aircraft jacks are going to be used- would have thought airbags were better.
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokWell done boys- luckily the damage is only Cat3. Fairly simple to repair as long as you have access to lots of rivets plus some L.72 and someone who has panel beating experience. As for the doors they could be repaired however if memory serves they have a honeycomb core so there could be some spot welds there even so access to a rolling machine and someone with a good eye should sort that.
Cheers Mad Jock
madjock mcgrok>>Don’t forget that Vulcans had previously had their AAR probes removed,<<
None of the active aircraft had their probes removed- even the ones at saints still had them mounted including XM653 which had the most inventive electrical looming ever seen in the bomb bay.
In the months prior to Corporate kicking off an Argentine party of military officials had arrived at saints to inspect some of the withdrawn Vulcans that were still parked on the main airfield- it was said that they were intent on purchasing some plus a bucket load of spares. At that time they would have got some good runners as they hadn’t long been delivered. It seems the secret squirrels had passed the word to the govt of the possibility of invasion thus any possible sale was declined.
The same batch of aircraft were later moved to Pickestone for possible scrapping although once fighting had started this was quickly stopped and all on base Vulcan peeps were put on standby to resume some very fast returns to service. During that period XL388 was used for trials concerning the fitment of external fuel tanks to the Skybolt positions thus clearing the bomb bay for the carriage of LGB’S.
Also a quick note concerning bomb bay tanks- every one that I worked on carried either an 5000 or 8000 lbs tank in forward part of the bomb bay which gave a rough total of 77,000 or 80,000 lbs of fuel overall.
Cheers
mad jock
madjock mcgrokWhen I joined the RAF many moons agon- though not as many as Steve!- I was told a story about one of the Brits being haunted- can anyone remember the details?
Ye olde brain cells aren’t the mighty beasts they used to be http://forum.keypublishing.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokHad a look through the flight test schedule and engineering book for the Valiant- no rapid start in those birds!
What no one mentions is the fun of charging the Vulcan rapid start system- serious consideration had to be given to not dropping the spanner [ 3/8th- 5/16th whitworth] down the jet pipe tunnel- mind you a good whack with a hide face normally bounced it back up so you could reach it. Always tied mine to my wrist with a bit of para chord especially when it was cold.
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokA 7th seat trip in XH558 last time I flew in a Vulcan was in XM656 to Goose Bay. Happy days when we had an air force.
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokAs ever Jared excellent Stuff- Many thanks.
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokAh ye olde crew trainer- I remember it well although I don’t think it had a lid on it at the time. If you look closely on the rear floor by the entrance door you will find that the operating layshaft isn’t the original fitted. As the nose had been used extensively over the years the rear crew of XM600 discovered that escaping when your aircraft is falling apart round your ears is harder in the real thing. Having forgotten about the electrical release switch located by the AEO’s knee they opted to do it manually- unfortunately they struggled to get the handle through the gate to blow the door open.
As this was mentioned during the accident report further investigation revealed that in comparison with an active aircraft the layshaft and its cams were so worn that a five year old could have opened the door. The upshot was I found myself with my Corporal, George Williams, in the old nose on the Waddo fire dump cutting out the layshaft. The downside was that the nose had been opened to the elements for about 30 years and was full of bird guano- it was also a very hot day. We eventually returned to 101 with our prize only to be thorough hosed down coz we ponged a bit. In fact new romper suits and cold weather gear all round as the others were burnt as a health hazard !
Re the poor guy who was killed after the door bolts failed to lock- it was mandatory after that to place a safety raiser and a couple of tyres under the door to stop that happening again
Cheers
Mad Jock
madjock mcgrokI think that is highly unlikely that any bomber or escort fighter would be low enough, or even drop low enough, to attack buildings. On a USAAF bomber raid the fighters were positioned to the side and above the bomber groups at many thousands of feet while the RAF raid heights were at a similar height. Even without a bomb load aboard, unless you are flying YB-40, the B-17’s, B-24’s and Lancasters would be more interested in the job in hand and then making it home without playing silly b*gg*rs at low level. Given the depth and abilities of the German defence forces it would be a quick way of committing suicide.
Cheers
Mad Jock
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