Hell just because it isn’t full of blisteringly new technology doesn’t mean it isn’t necessarily useful. Look at the B-52 and the KC-135 in the USAF, or the Tu-95 in Russia.
China in the 1980s was a special time and place. The airlines people were meeting with their counterparts in Hong Kong and the Hong Kongers as well as Taiwanese and Japan and S Korea all had western fleets. They made a hard-nosed business decision and it paid off.
This was before Tianenmen Square and when China and the US were allies. Using the best stuff the US even if it was expensive wasn’t a bad idea then because the leadership in power at the time believed that the business of carrying people in and around China was more important than making the aircraft that would do the carrying.
Y10
Yup, the synopsis is pretty much WD1’s explanation in a nutshell.
But the story is far more interesting and a mirror on China in the 1980s.
Remember as a communist nation China could have declared the Y10 prerequiste buy for the airlines and have them serve as internal market and incubator. Aeroflot serves pretty much the same way for Russian airliners deemed below western standards.
That China didn’t just allowed the Y10 to die but actually killed it over objections of many is a pretty amazing. And they didn’t kill a poor project.
The Y-10 was a technical success. Three were made by Shanghai Aviation which from 1980 to 1984 flew 130 times times. Among the cities graced by the Y10 were Beijing, Harbin, Urumqi, Zhengzhou, Hefei, Guangzhou, Kunming, Chengdu as well as the home city of hanghai. It flew seven time flies to Lhasa along so-called “the death route” because of the high altitude and the landing and takeoff requirements in thin air.
It was could carry up to 179 passengers. There were many PLAAF plans for it including the AWACS config.
There was a long article posted on the Y10 in the chinese forum lamenting the fate of the Y10 (this year being the 24th anniversary of first flight.)
Quoted from the article, “the Chinese commercial aviation industry is the ultimate killer of the Y10.”
In the 1980s, airline officials in China wanted Western aircraft. They wanted to split the airlines from being tied to the state aircraft industry. They actually fought tooth and nail against the Y10 because they were afraid they would be required to buy it.
Worse, Shanghai Aviation made a horrible mistake in destroying the Y10 assembly lines when they tied up with McDonnell Douglas in assembling the MD-80.
I couldn’t blame the airlines, especially if you look the size of the Chinese carrier industry today. Flying western aircraft has made them world-class airlines in two short decades (Air China, China Eastern and China Southern have some of the best safety records in the world.)
But many said that if the government had made companies buy at least a few Y10s they would have kept a great technical base.
This plane flew and flew quite well. It wasn’t as modern as Western aircraft at the time. But it could have survived just as the Y-7 has survived as a Chinese feeder line aircraft.
But to the airlines, West was best and that was that. Though I would doubt something like what happened to the Y10 would happen today. The ARJ21, China’s latest commercial carrier project already sold 35 airplanes before the first prototype has flown.
But 1980s was a special period where there were a lot of Western/Chinese tie-ups – the J8II Peace Pearl project, Super 7, Speys for the JH-7, talks of China buying Harriers, the Aspide from Italy, etc. All of those ended after 1989.
The Z-6 – China’s first independent helicopter program in 1966.
From http://www.helis.com/timeline/china.php:
“Through the Z-5 project the Chinese obtained valuable knowledge and experience in helicopter design and development. Soon after the Z-5 project completed, China began its efforts to develop an indigenous helicopter independently. In 1966, Harbin began the initial studies on the first indigenous helicopter Z-6.
Compared to the Z-5/Mi-4, the Z-6 helicopter possesses many advanced features, including a 1,618 kW Wozhou-5 turboshaft engine and re-designed blades and fuselage to achieve better performance in highland regions, larger payload, and less vibration and noise. The Z-6 also borrows many mature features and technologies from the Z-5’s designs, including the rear hatch, tail boom and fin.
The Z-6 was mainly designed to carry airborne troops in the frontline, with a fuselage to accommodate 12 soldiers. It has a maximum take-off weight of 7,600 kg, a payload of 1,200 kg, a maximum speed of 192 km/h and a ferry range of 651 km.
The first prototype (No.6001) of the Z-6 was completed in 1967 for static tests. In 1968, the Z-6 project obtained officially authorization from the PLA and Chinese Government. On 25 December 1969 the second Z-6 prototype No.6002 made its first flight. From 1970, the Z-6 programme was relocated to the newly founded Changhe Aircraft Factory (now Changhe/Jingdezhen Aircraft Industry Corporation ) in Jiangdezhen, Jiangxi, which later became the second largest helicopter manufacturer in China.
The Z-6 helicopter was type classified in 1977, with 15 helicopters already built. However, despite being a technologically successful design, the Z-6 programme was later cancelled due to various reasons, including unsatisfying performance and poor reliability. “
The Y-10, a passenger liner program in the 1970s that successfully flew and would have formed a basis for China’s civil and military jet transport.
The JJ1: A Mach 0.5 trainer. It first took to the air on July 26, 1958 piloted by Zhenwu Yu. Powered by the PF-1A jet engine, (thrust 3,500 lb.) designed and built at the Shenyang Aero Engine Factory.
The J-9, a delta-canard going Mach 2.4 and amed with 4 BVR missiles (PL-4) whose program began in 1967
Residual effects from the program gave us the PL-4, PL-10 and the J-10.
A ride to the fried clams place for the whole platoon!
i will take those suggestions into consideration
WS10A
File this under speculation –
The WS10A, according to a Chinese language forum post, first entered prototype stage in 1997, was first flown in 2001 (maybe a typo or mistake because most places record the first test flight of the WS10 on a J-11 in 2002) and nearly 100 has been produced since 2003.
If true, 100 would mean the engine is past development stage and in batch production at the very least. Those would almost certainly be in J-11s not J-10s.
According to a chinese language article:
The Kunlun Mountain engine. Claimed as one of the most advance turbojets in the world (of course, there hasn’t been much turbojet development by anyone else since the 1980s :D)
The thing took 18 years of development. It has a new Chinese-developed core and long service life.
Expected to be a powerplant for new Chinese fighters for the “next 10 to 15 years” with a lot of upside to its thrust potential (currently rated at 7500kg.)
This indicates that it most likely will have a variant be developed into a turbofan.
The turbojet was tested on and envisioned initially for the J-8II.
updated 🙂
J10 two-seater!
Arriving in Shanghai, the Thai Navy’s Taksin (422) and the Saiburi (458)
Taksin is a F25T commisioned in 1996. The top down photo definitely shows that the Mk-41 VLS listed as one of the systems in most publications is missing.
The Saiburi is one of four 053T/HT FFGs. It entered the fleet in 1992.
From this news, I’m guessing we’ll be able to see the outline of this ‘Super Burke’ in 2~3 years worth of time. They released some specs for this ship:
Length: 165m
Width: 21m
Height: 6.25m – I’m guessing height of the hull from the waterline?Armaments include
-80 Mk41 VLS-Strike Length: ESSM, SM-2MR, SM-3
-48 Domestic VLS system: Cruise missiles, K-ASROC system
-16 SSM-700K or Harpoon Block 2
-Goalkeeper CIWS, RAM
-Mk-45 Mod4 UD gun
Holy moly! That is one muscle-bound ship. Definitely the most powerful in Asia once it comes out. Can’t think of anything on the horizon matching it. I think it outmissiles the Kongo by a good margin, including twice as many AShMs if I recall correctly.