crushes bowling balls between her breasts.
That would be the VG wings, I take it.
Russia won’t sell it’s 5th generation fighter design to China anyway, so I don’t think it’s even an issue.
It isn’t one. It was a reply to the person who brought up China and the XXJ. There is no chance for the MiG 1.44 in China either way. It wasn’t offered and nobody asked.
The above is from the top of my head so any comments or corrections would be appreciated.
I’ll do an AIDC (Republic of China) one later. I’m giving someone else a shot at the American industry. Of course, it would be sacriledge if I do one on Russia (and not Vympel, Garry or Flex :D)
I’ll get us started with the Chinese industry 😀

Fighters
Shenyang: big brother of China’s aviation industry and traditionally the premiere fighter builder. Current products/developments: J-8II, J-11, J-11B, XXJ
OUTLOOK: Under pressure to keep its top slot as Chengdu is gaining greater prestige and international sales. The indigenized J-11 and the XXJ is critical to its future.
Chengdu: probably the most modern aviation firm in China today; a focus on international markets and western methods. Current products/developments: J-7PG/G, FC-1, J-10, J-10B, possibly J-10C
OUTLOOK: a stable of exportable products and at least two planes that could be sold in bulk to the PLAAF. The J-10 will bought in the 100s, the FC-1 possibly up to 1000 world-wide (according to some reports, 1000 for the PLAAF alone.) And even if the FC-1 doesn’t pan out for the PLAAF as its rank and file ac, the backup is another CAC product, the F-7MF.
Trainers/Light Attack
Guizhou: traditionally, the leading jet fighter trainer builder in China. Unfortunately, those trainers depended on providing pilots for the massive J-7 fleet of a bygone era. Current products/developments: JJ-7, FT-7, FT-7PG, JL-9/FTC2000
OUTLOOK: It really needs the FTC-2000 “Mountain Eagle” to work out. The speed with which this plane was developed and flown is encouraging and will give it a leg up on competition as a lead-in trainer for the FC-1. The bad thing is it has a turbojet and an older body design (albeit with different intakes) that is based on the JJ-7 and the MiG-21.
Hongdu: the similar to CAC but in the trainers space, an upstart that broke with the Chinese industry’s old moribound commie ways with a the K-8 based largely on western ideas and methods back in the 1990s. If there is anything as a nice “little” company in China’s aviation industry, this is it. Beside the trainers, much of its business comes from agricultural prop planes. Current products/developments: JL-8, L-15 (rumored limited production of Q-5s, probably for export)
OUTLOOK: HAIC includes within its ranks the Nanchang bureau. For those who study Chinese aviation, Nanchang is important because it designed and built the Q-5. This particular plane was built with little funding and kept alive during the Cultural Revolution by a few enthusiasts. It later became a major part of the PLAAF and was exported in good numbers. The K-8 is a similar underdog story with 25% funding from Pakistan, marginal support from the PLAAF and was hurt by an US embargo on its powerplant early in its life. But it had sold well, with an unheard of production line sale to Egypt. The development of the WS-11 has allowed the K-8 to begin entering the PLAAF in very large numbers as a basic/intermediate trainer. (Introduction into the PAF is also picking up.) The WS-11 will also allow the L-15 to be viable AJT choice for the PLAAF.
Bombers/military lift
Xian: China’s premier bomber builder (since Harbin had moved to helos.) Broke the mold in the late 1980s with the JH-7, the first western influenced design in China. Heavily involved in the civil parts industry and has some very good equipment because of it. Unfortunately, with the winding down of the H-6 production, this is one company with huge overcapacity left over from the old commie era. Current products/developments: Y-7, H-6D, JH-7, JH-7A
OUTLOOK: the JH-7A looks like it will go into mass production for the Navy. The key is probably the Qinling engine which means an all indigenous craft. Beyond the JH-7A, the future looks a bit murky for Xian on the military end (the Y-7 being rather important as a feeder plane in China’s civilian market.)
Shaanxi: China’s military airlift producers. It’s signature product is the Y-8. The Y-8 is a minor export success but is a major part of the PLAAF lift and recon/survey capability (which isn’t all that great.)
OUTLOOK: Essentially a one product company, military-wise. But there are supposed to be several major AWACs/AWE projects involving the Y-8 platform, including a planned mass produced early warning system for the Navy.
Rotary
Harbin: Harbin was the PRC archtypical mass production monolith in the old Pre-reform era. Harbin once filled the skies and flight lines with hundreds and hundreds of H-5 bombers. It had moved on to mainly helicopters for the military end of things.
OUTLOOK: Z-11, Z-9, Z-8 and a fairly nifty little seller in the Y-12 should keep this company healthy. There is also the heretofore mysterious WZ-10 and the proposed 5.5 ton medium lift copter. The Chinese military needs to expand its rotary fleet literally by hundreds. A massive amount of work from the military alone for company that has over 15,000 employees.
(LATER EDIT) The Z-11 and Z-8 are actually licensed produced by Changhe Aircraft.
I think the chance of the Mig 1.44 going to China is absolutely nil. Not only would Russia probably not sell it. It’s not even on China’s radar screen.
Considering the publicity surrounding the 1.44 for about seven years, there was never even the faintest rumor of Chinese interest.
Note: The XXJ program is no small deal nor is it a paper project. Design and testing is very far along. It is made public with pictures of models in windtunnels and repeated assertions that technologies for it are already being developed.
The XXJ is also a matter of survival for Shenyang. SAC was/is hamstrung by the Su-27SK/J-11 deal which left it having to spend the bulk of its resources producing a non-profitmaking machine with old technology. (This was pointed out by articles I posted in my old thread on Shenyang’s survival and the J-8II.)
The XXJ is to be SAC’s main focus for the future, probably alongside the indigenized J-11. It is already very far behind Chengdu in new products. It doesn’t have a single exportable item or even a homegrown product for the PLAAF besides the J-8II.
The XXJ is a national prestige project that is highly unlikely to be bought from overseas with its technology held hostage by another nation.
There is little doubt that the PAF is one of the better air forces in the world outside of the US and Europe if you considered its record. It is certainly one of the best small air forces. In fact, among third world nations, only the Vietnamese air force is better recordwise.
The Chinese FC-1 test pilot (in a news story posted in the old FC-1 thread) said that while the best air forces in the world are obviously Israel’s and the US’s, Pakistan is surprisingly potent because of its western orientation and training and he called it the “big brother” of all air arms in muslim countries.
He did say that the PAF’s equipment has lagged behind in recent years because of lack of access to western a/c. But that doesn’t change the fact that the PAF has been traditionally a very good air force.
The S-92, an international program, companies include: Embraer of Brazil, Gamesa of Spain, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries of Japan, Jingdezhen Helicopter Group/CATIC of the People’s Republic of China and Aerospace Industrial Development Corporation (AIDC) of Taiwan. Major subcontractors include Hamilton Sunderstrand, Rockwell Collins and General Electric.( Both China and Taiwan 🙂 )


Highly unlikely to be anything outside the West.
2 Light Utility Military Helicopters mainly for pilot training but also
which may be configured for air ambulance, VIP transport and limited
command and control.4 Utility Military Helicopters (with an option for
two (2) additional Utility Military Helicopters) mainly for
interoperability training with the Army, military manoeuvres, air
ambulance, casevac and limited air lift and troop transport for up to
eight fully equipped troops
I though the utility mil requirements were already filled by S-92. (Ireland ordered 3 SAR version with an option for two utililty mil ones.)
The trainer by the Gazelle.
The Gazelle, though, can’t operate as VIP, C&C and would be very limited in the ambulance role (can transport but no room for onflight medical procedures.)
I’m not sure the most efficient trainer (light, cheap and forgiving) is compatible with the other three requirements.
Something like the NH-90 would do well as well as the ubiquitous Daulphin, but since the IAC is replacing its unit then that’s out of the question.
A definition of what is light utility is in order? The Daulphin is considered light by some and medium by others. The Gazelle, Z-11, etc. are most definitely light. Helos of this class can’t serve very well for VIP (you’re talking Sea Knight King and up for the US Pres, anyways) or C&C because of lack of space for either passengers or heavy communications gear.
Hello ppl, i am new here.
Does this report looks credible to u guysIRAN ORDERS SUPER-7
http://www.nti.org/db/china/conchr.htm07/09/2003: Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAIC) unveiled their new fighter plane the ‘Super-7’ or Chao Qi to the public. The plane will carry two guided missiles on its first test flight sometime later this year. The new Super-7 is “an all-purpose light fighter, required to have all-weather operation capabilities, be capable of performing the dual tasks of dogfight and air-to-ground attack, and have the ability to launch medium-range missiles.” According to Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC), an enterprise under CAIC, if the test flight is successful they will immediately start production. However, mass production of the fighter will not begin until two and a half years of research are completed. The plane is being produced to be sold abroad to developing nations. According to Hong Kong press, China already has received orders from Iran and some African countries. Lou Ronghuai, general manager of CAC confirmed that several foreign countries have already placed orders for the new Super-7 but would not provide details. The Super-7 has the same engine as the Russian-made MIG-29. [“New Fighter Plane “Super-7” to Carry Two Missiles on First Flight,” Guangzhou Ribao, 10 July 2003; PRC’s Super-7 Aircraft to Make Maiden Flight ‘This Year’; Export Prospects ‘Good’,” Hong Kong Ta Kung Pao, 9 July 2003; “HK ZTS Describes PRC-Made Super-7 Combat Plane for Export Market,” Hong Kong Zhongguo Tongxun She, 2 September 2002.]
The Hong Kong press tend to jump to conclusions sometimes. That report was one of many during the runup to the first flight event in September. Pictures of prototype 01’s assembly were released around the time (7-9-2003.)
I have not seen any Chinese sources, especially one with the general manager of CAC, confirming any orders other than the one from Pakistan.
What is known is that CAC did tell people that Iran, Bangladesh and other nations would be at the first flight event.
It seems the HK press took it one step further and interpreted this to mean orders which, as far as we know today, is not confirmed by Chinese news sources.
The FC-1 is generating a large amount of interest without doubt. There isn’t anything else within its price range (as low as $12m according to the FC-1 proj manager.)
But interest is different from hard orders and currently hard orders are only confirmed for Pakistan; though Pakistani press has reported that the PLAAF will buy at 200 to match the PAF purchase.
http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/2004/06/13/news/news02.asp
It looks like the purported FC-1 sales to Zimbabwe is causing a bit of stir in South Africa.
As usual, an American publication starts the fearmongering.
Zimbabwe’s fighter jets spark fears of arms-race
Sunday Times Foreign DeskZIMBABWE’S order for more than 240-million worth of jet fighters from China flies in the face of a request by South African Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma that the country stop selling arms in sub-Saharan Africa.
According to a semi-official US defence intelligence publication, Dlamini-Zuma made the request, during a meeting of the China-South Africa bilateral forum, to head off a possible arms race on the subcontinent.
Military sources in Harare say that Zimbabwe will acquire 12 FC-1s as replacements for the Chengdu F-7s, currently based in Gweru. The FC-1, a lightweight multipurpose fighter based on Russia’s MiG-33, will provide a credible answer to the challenge posed by the 28 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters that the SA government has ordered from Saab, the Swedish arms manufacturer.
According to Armed Forces Journal International, published in Virginia, US, Dlamini-Zuma’s request was at least partly aimed at protecting the interests of SA’s state-owned arms industries. But her request also “reveals that South Africa has observed a growing pattern of Chinese arms sales” in its own backyard, and provided “evidence of its serious concern about the matter”.
Yesterday Foreign Affairs spokes man Ronnie Mamoepa said he could not recall Dlamini-Zuma making such a request. He referred further queries to his department’s Asian Affairs desk, which did not answer calls.
The Zimbabwean fighter jet order also defies a 1998 appeal by UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan that defence expenditure in Southern Africa be frozen for 10 years at 1.5% of countries’ GDP.
Figures compiled for the SA Institute of International Affairs show that, if anything, Annan’s plea has been answered with a full-scale arms race between Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa and other countries in the region.
The South African government says it spends only 1.5% of GDP on arms. According to the institute’s figures, however, only Zambia and Swaziland have adhered to the 1.5% limit. Zimbabwe (3.4% ), Namibia (3.6% ) and South Africa (1.7% ), it says, have committed themselves to expensive military upgrades.
China only has one major airshow where military equipment is showcased and that’s Zhuhai every two years
If the current Pakistani interest in the J-10 continues, it will probably appear at Zhuhai 2006. Once it is cleared for export, the marketing engine will kick up.
FC-1 at the Zhuhai Airshow!
This is official. They will fly. And the preparations are massive because a very large foreign presence is expected.
If the foreign buyers are bored with the airplane, they can also check out the “beautiful woman cheering team” 😀
Babelfished:
The owlet dragon fighter plane will attend in October Zhuhai 航展 and carries on the air show
——————————————————————————–
2004-06-12 01:06:31 clicks:207
On June 12, 2004 06:15 day government office morning paper
The morning paper news (Reporter Meng’s Mei) reporter yesterday (11) the date learned, holds in this year October at Zhuhai 航展, the owlet dragon fighter plane for the first time by real machine will declare a position, once owlet dragon which will hover in the Rongcheng sky with owlet dragon two all goes to Zhuhai, and will carry on the air show.
Becomes flies the group foreign trade place staff to say that, attends 航展 the preparatory work to be very many, only plans arranges this work, has used nearly 1 year. The owlet dragon real machine participation technical preparation reaches more than 100 items, only participates the scene technology the installation personnel to have more than 20 people. Because the owlet dragon must carry on the air show, the staff specially has also prepared in climate 39th session of world advertisement congress NEC million picture elements handsets 1 Yuan racket beautiful woman cheering team and so on the hot sun, gale or rainstorm recruits 2,004 Che Zhanda under the full fine sights technical protection, but also specially has designed the parasol for the owlet dragon and guards against 雨棚.
The owlet dragon fighter plane rushes toward Zhuhai by any type way now also to be at the security stage. It is reported, the former owlet dragon model participation generally all is first uses the fire vehicle transport to arrive Guangzhou, then transports to Zhuhai take the automobile, the travelling schedule approximately as two days, enjoys the special military transportation treatment. It is reported, stemming from the route in consideration, the owlet dragon cannot non-stop fly Zhuhai. The owlet dragon goes to Zhuhai by any way or to be anxious.
Carries on how air show regarding owlet Long Hui in Zhuhai, according to the staff which is responsible for the owlet dragon participation project disclosed, absolutely will be able to be very splendid, participates in the owlet dragon test flight two meritorious services pilots all to participate in the flight.
That’s from a week earlier, Google. News stories in papers or periodicals always mention a related item that is essential to the story. Unless that item appears in a separate story on the same page in the same edition, it should be mentioned or the story is considered badly researched.
Business stories, especially, always refer to important related items no matter how well covered those are already. In fact, an editor will insist on at least a mention.
For example, if Ford is in serious financial trouble and there is a major story on a class action lawsuit involving the tires on its SUVs, it doesn’t matter how many times the SUV tire story had been covered before in the paper, it needs to be mentioned in the Ford financial story. Without the SUV lawsuit, the finances of Ford would be in much better shape and readers would point this out in letters.
Now, MiG’s sales to Algeria would obviously have a large impact on the company’s financial health. In fact, it should be among the biggest tidbits of information surrounding MiG’s financial situation.
Leaving the Algerian buy out just because it was already written a week ago is not good reporting. Leaving it out because it is no longer considered absolute fact, on the other hand, is good reporting.
Doh! That’s what I get for not having a subscription to Janes 😀