GoldenDragonYou can’t shake him so you suddenly pulls up
GoldenDragonIt’s basically standing up on your tail and practically hovering and then leveling the nose again and going.
So the only scenario for it is this:
You’re in deep trouble in a furball and a bogey is right behind you
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by phrozenflame
@GD: is Cobra any useful or is it just fancy manouvre to make ppl happy in air shows…(really made me happy when i saw it in the airshow in dubai..)
Well Phrozen, this a recent screencap series from a Chinese science show. It’s shows the Cobra maneuver.
GoldenDragonOH YEAH!!!! JH-7A!
Thanks, PLAWolfie!
GoldenDragonPS. Am i correct in understanding that 7 sU-27 protypes crashed during its development and that cobra manuever was an accidental discovery???
Yes, but it’s the reporter saying he thought he read that. He is confused and it should be that Su-27 prototype 7 (T-10-7) crashed and killed its pilot. The program wouldn’t have survived 7 ptype crashes.
Actually, the first Su-27 prototype (T-10-1) crashed and killed its pilot, too. The Flanker started off life as an unmitigated disaster before righting itself.
Yes, the senior test pilot Wang said the Cobra was never intended and was discovered accidentally. He doesn’t think it’s important or practical because even a Flanker can’t do it all the time and can only do it in certain conditions. He also added there are better planes than the Flanker can’t do it.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by phrozenflame
Imagine if you be the first one to post the video of 03 here π … u’d feel like –> π
Yeah, but there’ll be a lot of people posting. Someone PDF would probably get it first like last time π
We tend to get screencaps from CCTV but full videos from Pakistani televsion.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by phrozenflame
not the newest F-16s blocks,anyway, PDF reporting PTV says FC-1 did its supersonic flight, i’ll have to see it in news, I cannot confirm it atm…
As the Chengdu Business article said, flight performance will wrung out with the 03.
The barrel rolls, loops and the nearly vertical climb right after takeoff we saw in the video of 01 was only a very small portion of its envelope. The news stories from September, 2003 had said so.
Imagine the test flight video on the 03!
Then it’s on to 04 and we’ll see the radar and SD-10 π
GoldenDragonOn stealth
Chengdu business newspaper: It is reported “the owlet dragon” has the certain stealth ability?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: When design, certainly not sedulously pursues the stealth ability, but or has the consideration in the air operated layout aspect.
More or less what babelfish says: stealth was not a key item in the design but is considered in the layout of the planform when possible. Basically saying flight characterics and other considerations were more important but stealth isn’t totally unknown forgotten.
GoldenDragonAmong the more interesting notes to a very long interview are the following:
It is reported, “the owlet dragon” the family altogether has 4 members:
01 carry on the airplane characteristics and the engine match experiments,
02 to carry on the static test, has successively completed.
03 carry on the operation soundness test and the intensity test flight inspects, flies on April 9;
04 carry on the aviation electron and the weapon experiment, will carry on in the next year.
It seems the loops and turns that we saw in 01’s test flights in August and September were at the bottom end of its performance envelop since it was only to test the engine match with the chasis π
The currently 03 is where the FC-1 will be wrung out and put through stress during flight.
02 is for static tests, that we know already from earlier reports. We should see the radar in the 04 next year.
“The owlet dragon” is born only uses for 4 years
Chengdu business newspaper: Formerly involved the military the event often all the foreign strict security, but this time from the owlet dragon 01 to 03, repeatedly publicly declared a position on the media, was considered based on what?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: This project itself is a international cooperation project, needs to have the market. We now already had the quite good market prospect, but said as the enterprise, the market forever was infinite, therefore this we considered let the media participation. But this is the military purpose airplane after all, must receive the certain limit.
Interesting because they publicly addressed the secrecy of other projects. There is an implicit nod towards the J-10/J-10B being developed at the same company.
There is an acknowledgement of the market.
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: First, we in the technology have adopted very many methods from the management, has created this miracle. Second, other airplanes developments have also laid the solid foundation for this project, it has represented all technology base which our country aviation industry Before this establishes. “The owlet dragon” the present fame is very big, but we cannot forget before these seniors and the colleagues did the contribution, “the owlet dragon” was develops in these foundations. On the other hand, “the owlet dragon” also absorbed and fused many contemporary international advanced aviation technology, this has also manifested in our country aviation industry a very big stair.
Very, very interesting from the standpoint of someone who’ve followed China’s social changes as well as military ones. The project leader tipped his cap at the “seniors” who’ve helped create the “foundation” but continue to say that the FC-1 is a production of absorbing many international technology (“absorbing and learning from the West.”)
This again is a common drumbeat in articles related to the FC-1.
Chengdu business newspaper: Its potential market has in a big way?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: My individual view is about 1,000. If according to “the owlet dragon” the selling price 100 million Renminbi, is 100 billion Renminbi.
The project leader believe there’s a market for one thousand(!)
150-200 for the PAF would leave 800. This is implicit confidence that the PLAAF would take a large order.
100 million Reminbi is about $12m American with the rounded off 8:1 exchange rate.
A $12m BVR capable plane could be a pretty good seller π
Chengdu business newspaper: As owlet dragon developer, if provides the enough funds for you, you can design the fourth generation of fighter plane representative works – – US’S F22?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: We have this foundation.
π π π
GoldenDragonA long and very detailed babelfished Chinese news story on the FC-1 03 from the local Chengdu paper.
The two test pilots and project team leaders were interviewed.
Visits the owlet dragon test pilot and the developer: Latent market value 100 billion
2004-04-16 08:47:15 Sichuan news net – Chengdu Business Newspaper
“The owlet dragon” the airplane is China and Pakistan cooperates together development,1,999 year China and Pakistan officially signs the development contract, this is the history which the Chinese military aircraft develops surmounts. On August 25, 2003, “owlet dragon” 01 realizations initial flights. It is reported, “the owlet dragon” the family altogether has 4 members: 01 carry on the airplane characteristics and the engine match experiments,02 to carry on the static test, has successively completed. 03 carry on the operation soundness test and the intensity test flight inspects, flies on April 9; 04 carry on the aviation electron and the weapon experiment, will carry on in the next year.
Dialogue honored guest:
Wang Wenjiang: 40 years old, when the pilot 23 years, 10 years test flight experiences, top grade test pilot, flight time approximately 2,000 hours, air force some test flight production brigade vice- production brigade chief.
Liang Wan Jun: 39 years old, when the pilot 21 years, 6 years test flight experiences, top grade test pilot, flight time 1,800 hours, air force some test flight production brigade vice- production brigade chief.
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: Chengdu airplane industry (group) company “owlet dragon” project manager.
Dialogue place: Air force some test flight production brigade
Dialogue time: On April 14, 2004 when 9 o’clock ~12
Management: Newspaper Reporter Chen Gefan
In outstanding person’s outstanding person —– test pilot
Test pilot: Ideally turns the reality
Chengdu business newspaper: What the test pilot and do the ordinary pilot have to distinguish?
Wang Wenjiang: After the volume production aircraft delivery army, through pilot’s tactical training achieved the operational capacity, the pilot mainly uses the airplane, moreover uses is the test pilot has flown in the airplane characteristics target scope airplane which, assigns. Test pilot’s work is through the test flight, confirms a new airplane the performance whether does achieve the target, displays the airplane biggest possibility.
Liang Wan Jun: Is looked whether the airplane has completed the design original intention, the test flight may say is ideally becomes the reality the process.
Chengdu business newspaper: You distinguished to fly owlet dragon 01 and 03, how felt?
Liang Wan Jun: Now also not flattery, after and so on airplane stereotypia, but also needs test flight very many sortie.
Chengdu business newspaper: In does the achievement outstanding person’s outstanding person, how the test pilot is select?
Liang Wan Jun: Most early all is elects inside the army, for instance the request flight time achieved 700 hours, the flight technology must pull out point and so on. The before test flight is the airplane design finalizes after to leave the plant the test flight, the present test pilot as soon as starts to need to participate in the design, participated in the stereotypia test flight.
The psychological quality is more important than the technology
Chengdu business newspaper: Have what different quality request to the test pilot and do the ordinary pilot?
Wang Wenjiang: The physical quality request basically is same, but test pilot to psychological quality request higher somewhat. Because the test pilot encounters the peculiar circumstance the probability to have to be much bigger than the army pilot. The army pilot drives airplane technology maturity higher, the safety coefficient is bigger; But the test pilot must depart the airplane limit, therefore has the problem the probability to want big, requests the test pilot to be able to withstand the bigger pressure.
Chengdu business newspaper: In other words, the pilot not necessarily can be the test pilot, but the test pilot certainly is the outstanding pilot.
Wang Wenjiang: Right.
Chengdu business newspaper: You thought own psychological quality is strong?
Wang Wenjiang: I think am alright.
Chengdu business newspaper: Selects your time, what type psychological test has experienced?
Wang Wenjiang: Each pilot can experience the psychological test, carries on the psychological training, establishes the psychological file. For instance and should be right to the emergency situation analysis judgement.
The head flies the eve certainly not to lose sleep
Chengdu business newspaper: The test pilot is the high risk profession. Some materials said that, Russia’s SU-27 has fallen 7 in the development, had the test pilot to sacrifice. How do you regard these?
Wang Wenjiang: The good psychological quality is decided by the solid theory and the technical foundation of basic skills, the usual experience accumulation. As the saying goes that, the boldness because of one’s skill, you understand it, you have the judgement, has the preparation, has the confidence. From works as the pilot first day, we has prepared for which the offer even sacrificed.
Chengdu business newspaper: King vice- production brigade chief flew “the owlet dragon 01” is last year on August 25, how that day morning did you cross?
Wang Wenjiang: With ordinary is same, washes rinses eats meal.
Chengdu business newspaper: Day before evening has lost sleep?
Wang Wenjiang: Does not have. As a result of the technical progress, the present flew the nose to fly is bigger than the before safety coefficient, including very many air manoeuvres, the flight quality all was allowed to plan in a mold top die, we have beforehand made the full preparation, therefore I had the confidence very much.
Liang Wan Jun: The ground quality simulation test are not many with the airborne real situation difference, the probably 9 tenths situations all are consistent.
Also good attractive airplane
Chengdu business newspaper: The airplane in the triturating, can makes the revision according to test pilot’s flight experience and the suggestion, then, in “the owlet dragon” in the series development, has accepted your suggestion?
Liang Wan Jun: This kind of situation are very many. From the cabin layout to the operating system, we all raised very suggested.
Wang Wenjiang: Our suggestion basically can accept. Moreover we have a test flight team, is comes from the collective suggestion. For instance the cabin layout needs to consider pilot’s ease of operation, the operation custom and so on, some contents the edge change on the need nearby, unceasingly consummates.
Chengdu business newspaper: The overseas military expert has plants the view, the good airplane certainly is the attractive airplane, the attractive airplane certainly is the good airplane. You have flown very many types, thought “the owlet dragon” is the good airplane and the attractive airplane?
Liang Wan Jun: Designs according to the convention said that, “the owlet dragon” should say is the good attractive airplane.
Once the danger met airborne stops
Chengdu business newspaper: In the test flight profession, has meets the thrilling situation, how do you process?
Wang Wenjiang: I have not met the danger in these years test flights to the situation which must parachuting, but the big special situation or has. For instance airborne stops, the engine stops moving, that must in the short time the again starting engine.
Chengdu business newspaper: Airborne stops the long time to be able to have the danger?
Wang Wenjiang: This but actually incompletely is decided by the time, but is the flight altitude. The airplane has lost the power, it is the hard clod, may spatially slide, after but highly is losing, but also does not have the appropriate emergency landing ground, very was dangerous. Because generally comes θ―΄εΊ outside the forced landing success ratio to the superfighter to be very low. Certainly, I time restarted the airplane in the short time.
Chengdu business newspaper: In what situation may abandoning machine?
Liang Wan Jun: Airplane completely out of control, cannot land in the situation, after the pilot is may judge chooses abandoning machine.
Wang Wenjiang: I also have met a dangerous situation. After takes off 56 minutes, the hydraulic pressure drill tubing bursts, the oil divulges, I through the hydraulic pressure gauge discovered pressure anolmaly drops. Leaks off the oil just sprinkles in the temperature very high engine outer covering, braved the thick smoke, afterwards distressed landing. After descended has closed the engine, that smoke also very was all thick. If late discovered 12 minutes, do not do well fly the opportunity to cook meals, even explodes, this kind of situation extremely is dangerous.
Chengdu business newspaper: Our pilot does have picture SU-27 the pilot creates “Pu to add the tall husband cobra” movement such, departs own acrobatic maneuver?
Wang Wenjiang: “The cobra” the movement only can make by SU-27, moreover only can make under some specific conditions. Is better than much airplanes also SU-27 not to be able to make this movement, because this movement is not the design, but is the accident discovers.
Liang Wan Jun: It only is explained the airplane has this ultra maneuvering performance quality.
More than 20,000 person of blessing and anticipation
Chengdu business newspaper: For you SU-27, you can depart this movement?
Wang Wenjiang: Is not each people all can depart. He or study, accumulation experience.
Chengdu business newspaper: The test pilot to the ordinary common people said is the very mystical occupation, Chief Liang vice-, you flies “the owlet dragon in April 9 03” that day, what did your family member say to you?
Liang Wan Jun: My wife and the children all does not know this matter. I regard as this matter one of own routine work.
Chengdu business newspaper: Stems from the security need, or is not willing the transferor person to worry?
Liang Wan Jun: We usually receive the training is makes us to maintain εΉ³εΈΈεΏ. Treats as the routine work it a part, only is has not flown the new airplane. Our preparatory work is very full. After I get down, only then tells the family member, heard flies successful everybody very to be all happy.
Chengdu business newspaper: The head flies the eve, you live in the home?
Liang Wan Jun: Lives in the flight group dormitory. In fact flies is “the owlet dragon which the pressure is biggest 01” the head flies, that day, becomes flies the company and the correlation personnel more than 20,000 people all is raising the head waits for, all is praying for heavenly blessing, but that also is a pressure. I fly 03 after all and 01 almost, only before not on another day.
The test pilot sale price is inestimable
Chengdu business newspaper: The test pilot puts forward the proposal to the designer, then they had to be familiar with the airplane the constitution?
Liang Wan Jun: The test pilot is must look for the question, leaves the suggestion. We must be familiar with the airplane the entire design material and the theory, to a brand-new airplane “the theory reequipment”, we must complete in the short half year time is equal studies the specialized content to the aeronautical institute airplane design specialized undergraduate student four years institute.
Chengdu business newspaper: As a test pilot, the achievement feeling is not very strong?
Liang Wan Jun: In the Chinese air force pilots, can work as the test pilot, flies the domestically produced new fighter plane, is our highest ideal.
Chengdu business newspaper: The test pilot has sale price this view? How much money trains a test pilot to have to spend?
Liang Wan Jun: The before view was, only trained an ordinary pilot from to enter a school to the graduation funds, quite Yu Yuzhei pilot body weight similarly heavy gold. The test pilot is certainly higher.
Inserts the wing – – designer for “the owlet dragon”
“The owlet dragon” is born only uses for 4 years
Chengdu business newspaper: Formerly involved the military the event often all the foreign strict security, but this time from the owlet dragon 01 to 03, repeatedly publicly declared a position on the media, was considered based on what?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: This project itself is a international cooperation project, needs to have the market. We now already had the quite good market prospect, but said as the enterprise, the market forever was infinite, therefore this we considered let the media participation. But this is the military purpose airplane after all, must receive the certain limit.
Chengdu business newspaper: “The owlet dragon” from sets up the item to fly to realization, has only used 4 years time, how can be such quick?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: First, we in the technology have adopted very many methods from the management, has created this miracle. Second, other airplanes developments have also laid the solid foundation for this project, it has represented all technology base which our country aviation industry Before this establishes. “The owlet dragon” the present fame is very big, but we cannot forget before these seniors and the colleagues did the contribution, “the owlet dragon” was develops in these foundations. On the other hand, “the owlet dragon” also absorbed and fused many contemporary international advanced aviation technology, this has also manifested in our country aviation industry a very big stair.
Potential market value 100 billion
Chengdu business newspaper: “Owlet dragon” goal market approximately in which countries and area?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: At present the main user develops the cooperation side, but also has very many countries extremely to be interested to this airplane, is discussing with us, should say the international market potential is very big.
Chengdu business newspaper: Its potential market has in a big way?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: My individual view is about 1,000. If according to “the owlet dragon” the selling price 100 million Renminbi, is 100 billion Renminbi.
Chengdu business newspaper: Compares with the international same scale airplane, “owlet dragon” which does the competitor have? Its market superiority in where?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: On the international military aircraft market incompletely is the money matter, receives including factor the and so on politics influence. Compares with the international same scale airplane, “owlet dragon” the natural price is very higher than, market superiority in here. Some countries are richly cannot buy the most advanced airplane, some are does not have that many money to buy, therefore it needs to purchase the airplane which can satisfy oneself requests.
We also can design F22
Chengdu business newspaper: As owlet dragon developer, if provides the enough funds for you, you can design the fourth generation of fighter plane representative works – – US’S F22?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: We have this foundation.
Chengdu business newspaper: “The owlet dragon” fighter plane each part all is we independently develops?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: All is.
Chengdu business newspaper: “Owlet’s dragon 03” becomes ει¦ flies, is not meant already had has been allowed the continual volume production ability? Official payment use in when?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: The continual volume production should be does not have the question. At present, already carried on the small volume production the preparation, officially paid the use also to need period of time.
Chengdu business newspaper: It is reported “the owlet dragon” has the certain stealth ability?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: When design, certainly not sedulously pursues the stealth ability, but or has the consideration in the air operated layout aspect.
Wants to ride the airplane which oneself produces
Chengdu business newspaper: You have ridden the airplane which you produces?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: Does not have. At present is does not permit, but I extremely want to ascend the sky feel.
Chengdu business newspaper: If test pilot’s suggestion and designer’s design has the conflict, whose listens?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: The designer can listen to test pilot’s opinion as far as possible. If is the irresistible reason, the designer can discuss with him, in addition, listens to the test pilot. Because he is the direct manipulator, designer’s design idea and the goal can turn the reality through them, the test pilot also is true design εδΈθ .
Chengdu business newspaper: How guarantees test pilot’s safety from the hardware?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: Test pilot’s safety always is our with emphasis consideration aspect, if meets the question which is unable to solve, the test pilot may escape through the ejection installation, this set of ejection installation may guarantee springs in the airplane zero speed ιΆι«εΊ¦ situation the test pilot.
Chengdu business newspaper: How did you appraise these to cooperate many years test pilot?
Commander-in-chief faces the forest: They are in outstanding person’s outstanding person.
This version plans reorganizes Chen Gefan Xu Qiongzhao yu Meng to photograph: Liu Zhong
Reporter the hand records
The view dragon imperial is in fashion
On April 14. Cloudyly has the light rain.
On his cross nose soaring “owlet dragon”, I feel in his vision sharp. Thunders in the sound in the deafening engine, they while Long Yufeng but the line, in airborne delimit δΈι a startled colorful line.
The tumbling, the side fly, ει£, greatly winds, S is curved… … “The owlet dragon” gracefully time passed over gently and swiftly my top of the head. The fuselage has become the sunspot, the sound wave only then hits hard the eardrum. The distant place unexpectedly does not have several house sparrows plates to fly. Thought roosts already is listens to here they to be used to not not startled, the courageous like tiger.
I am first. Formerly has seen in the innumerable pictures its beautiful figure, so nearly observes it imperial wind Xiu, was first.
Attractive diving, is meeting is extremely fast pulls rises. “The owlet dragon” the anger lifts the main item straight refers to the heaven, if escaped the string flying arrow to leave my line of sight.
The wind is more and more fierce. The distant place windvane has become very straight.
“Owlet dragon” presently. Decelerates. The trailing wheel light spot ground, front wheel like Xiu female treads foot Lishui, lithe but is certainly beautiful. Three accepts after checking, a rear part magnificent big umbrella open, steadily steadily pulls.
He goes down, I welcome. “Is anxious?” He smiles, puts out a hand as soon as to grasp. That hand, warm, is firm, likes the rock which under the sunlight does not move. (Chen Gefan)
Edition: Long Xin
GoldenDragonWell, according to a 1999 Australian contract for 71 ANG-73 radars (for F-18s) was estimated at $255m. That’s about $3.6m in 1999 dollars for a radar in a (very) roughly comparable machine.
I don’t think 1 million for the Zhuk is outrageous.
GoldenDragonThis is one of the FC-1’s design team, Shau Chao Lin. Since September, stories on the FC-1 highlighted the youth of the project team and how the design is the first be designed under “market” conditions.
It’s really a continuing drumbeat in the Chinese press.
GoldenDragonThis goes with the bablefished story posted by SD-10 above. From Sina.Com.
Test pilots, Liang Wan Jun and Wang Wen Jiang.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by ohadbx
They are probably looking (or should be looking) for foreign financing, like with the chinese and the SU-37 I believe.
The problem with China is that it hasn’t worked with MiG since before the Sino-Soviet split. After the West’s embargo in 1989, China had proceeded with Sukhoi and the Flanker, bypassing both the Fulcrum and Foxhound (contrary to rumors), MiG’s flagship items.
MiG’s best hope had resided with the RuAF’s upgrade. But if there’s no fund from that direction, MiG is down to the air complement for the Gorshkov deal or, hopefully, the Algerian one, for any income at all.
Yes, and i have a feeling the Su-27 upgrade will also get frozen.
The Su-27SM had been funded by China directly or indirectly already, according to Fisher, so development will happen either though the SM specifically or filtering from the Su-30MKK2 and MK3 projects.
Sukhoi’s Flanker upgrade will be there waiting when the RuAF have the money in future.
MiG’s is in a different position. Without a large foreign buy for the Mig-29 or a change of heart in Russia, the SMT development won’t be completed.
The truth is a lot of great old names in fighter manufacturing have died out. Grumman, North American, Fokker, Vought and, unless something changes, MiG.
GoldenDragonGarry, you’re lucky that creepy weirdo hasn’t developed an infatuation for you.
It’s vaguely flattering in a way . . . but there’s nothing more bizarre and perverted than a grown man pretending that he’s a Hamburger and being “cute.”
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