GoldenDragonIt`s funny you have the idea the British have not built military jet aircraft, i will give you some data
Who said that? Who actually said that the British have not built military jet aircraft? Why would Britain who basicaly created the modern military jet engine in the Nene not have built many jets?
Why would you make up such stupidity and then proceed to give the obvious answer to that stupidity? Are you debating me or are you debating shadows on silly questions that you made up yourself?
The UK is a P5 nation like China. It has built MANY jet military aircraft. It simply had not built as many jet engines as China, according to what I’ve read. Britain never came close to a 4000-ship air force. Western engines also don’t need to be changed after short usage.
Don’t make up things up and then proceed to answer them. It’s a stupid way to debate.
GoldenDragonJL-9/FTC-2000 prototype testing its gun.
GoldenDragonthere are many aircraft built by China, however the point you do not have data of how many jet engines have been built in China, just aeroengines
The data I put up was at least 73000 engines. There are twin engines for the J-6, A5, J-8s and H6 while all Chinese jets based on the Russian model change their engines constantly. China built very few civilian aircaft.
The Chinese radials on the CJ-6A were instead replaced by parts like any other radial engine anywhere else in the world. The turbojets have to be replaced after several hours for the J-6.
10,000 jets with a large number of them being two engined with most certainly used up 50,000 engines. There were 3000 J-6s if the average J-6 had its engines changed just twice over the course of its life, this one model alone would have used up 12000 engines.
Both Liming and Liyang who produce engines for the J-6 and J-8 employ over 12,000 workers each. You have no idea as to the scale of the operations in China.
England is perhaps the third most powerful nation in what respects jet engines … England has the third most powerful jet engine industry by far and in some areas surpasses even Russia
Who is arguing with you on this? England, like France, has a more advanced engine industry than Russia. In fact, most if not all of the Russian military engines could be traced back to the British Nene. By extension all of the thousands of engines built by Liming and Liyang were as much British in origin as Russian.
But who the heck is arguing with you? The third most prolific military jet engine industry in the world after the US and the former USSR is China. Why bring in civilian planes/engines when you know we are talking about the military?
Again, France and England are P5 countries alongside China, the US and Russia. No one is claiming China is more advanced than the UK in engine technology.
But it is more prolific. It also has more capacity to build military jet engines than any other nation not in the P-5.
GoldenDragonHey, it not like there would ever be an actual war between the US and China. Israelites are forward looking chaps. Hell, even the Taiwanese know this and are supplying China with American aviation product whenever possible.
Taiwanese faces up to 8 years in prison for acting as agent for China
By Vanessa Blum
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Posted May 18 2006A Taiwanese national who worked as an international sales representative for Lockheed Martin pleaded guilty Wednesday in Miami federal court to acting as a secret agent for communist China.
More
GoldenDragonAlso another contributor is high-end machine tool tech that was bled to the PRC over many years —
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/china/Manufacturing/pg1.html
( 2 pages )Not to mention all of the PLA front companies around the world and industrial espionage.
MD actually built a plant in Shanghai. The industrial spying and front companies are pretty routine for all countries.
Don’t discount the Taiwanese military (there are several thousand retired ROC’s military officers living in China) and Israel passing along things like the AMRAAM and Patriot :rolleyes:
GoldenDragonAlso the WS-11 and the Kunlun core.
Then there are turbojets. There is no nation outside the P5 with a list that even comes remotely close in mil-aviation engines. Even a highly developed Western nation like Sweden who is the most successful mil aircraft producer in Europe after France and the UK depends on American engines.
Co. des. a/c dry (lbs) wet (lbs)
Liming WP6 J-6, JJ-6, Q-5/-5I/-5IA/-5II, A-5C/K 5,732 8,929
Liming WP6A Q-51, A-5M 6,614 8,267
Liming WP6B J-12 5,511 8,929
Liming WP7 J-7 8,598 12,676
Liming WP7A J-8 9,698 13,265
Liyang WP7B J-7, JJ-7, J-8I 9,700 13,448
Liyang WP7C J-7I/II 9,588 13,623
Liyang WP7F J-7E 9,921 14,330
XAE WP8 H-6 20,944
Liyang WP13 J-7III, J-8II ‘Finback-B’ 9,039 14,550
Liyang WP13A II J-7III, J-8II ‘Finback-B’ 9,590 14,815
Liyang WP13B J-8II ‘Finback-B’ 15,430
The vast majority of the aircraft built in China’s were military jets. Fighters in particular which meant turbojets.
AVIC I affiliates 50000 plus aviation engines
AVIC II affiliates 23600 aviation engine
http://www.avic2.com/JiTuanJJ/erji_jj.htm
AVIC II owns 81 subordinate industrial enterprises, research institutes and other organizations (including 50 percent shares of CATIC).
Its main business scope covers the development and production of aero-products for both military and civil a-pplications, which include helicopter, transporter, trainer, attacker, general aircraft, UAVs and their related en-gines and airborne equipment, etc. Since the foundation of the P.R.C., AVIC II’s subordinate enterprises have produced accumulatively more than 6,100 aircraft (incl. 660 odd helicopters), 23,600 engines and 10,000 tact-ical missiles.
GoldenDragonIf the Israel does get the JSF, how long before they claim it was passed to China? 😀
GoldenDragonI rushed into no conclusion and repeated something I read more than once.
Those are 50,000 aero engines from just AVIC I. The companies of AVIC II are the ones that build civilian and helo engines.
Stop bringing up false arguments that no one is even arguing with you. No one claims that China is more advance than the other P5 members — which includes France and the UK.
If you want to believe that they built more jet engines then go ahead. Who cares?
The point is that the WS-10A is coming from a country that has built thousands upon thousands of jet engines and aircraft and have a 40 year history of building and testing turbofans.
There aren’t alot of other turbofans or turbojets can be used to power military jets anywhere else in the world. It is only matched by the other members of the P5.
GoldenDragonSomeday, some crazy nation will build a giant flying carrier that can turn into a humungous robot.
GoldenDragonGreat 3 sided view of 04
GoldenDragonA very good FC-1 Video show (but not PT-04)
Here’s a pretty nice one that is making the rounds (probably based on the one you posted, John):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6759425224735284123&pl=true
The 01 and 03 protypes are doing rolls and booming across the airstrip at 20 feet off the tarmac. Very nice stuff.
GoldenDragonAnother large picture of the 04.
GoldenDragonI did say jet engines and I meant it. Military jet engines since that is what we are discussing here. Who said China built more engines than Russia? Why bring up phoney arguments?
My statement is very simple:
China has one of the three most prolific jet engines industry in the world. Only Russia and the United States have produced more jet engines than China.
No one claims that China is better at building jet engines than the other four. China certainly built a lot of them. If you insist that France and the UK built more than go ahead and believe it. Who cares?
That isn’t even the argument. The argument here is about the WS-10A and the fact that China has made thousands of jet engines and supported a 4000 plane air force that is matched only by two others.
It also had been building and experimenting with turbofans since the 1960s.
So if not better than the other four fellow members of the P5, it certainly have more experience any other state outside the UN Security Council elite.
GoldenDragonAVIC I ALONE had produced over 50,000 engines. AVIC II ALSO produces engines. I read trade piblications. China produced more military jet engines in the post-war era than any others except the United States and the USSR.
No one is making the claim that China is more advanced than France or Britain.
In fact, I SPECIFICALLY said out of 191 nations registered with the UN, there are four which China is not necessarily better than. Those are the other members of the P5.
I said China is simply more prolific not necessarily better than the rest of the P5. You can’t be prolific at anything without being somewhat good at it. Unless you believe that people can doing something 50 or 60 thousand times and never progress :rolleyes:
From http://tzswj.mofcom.gov.cn/accessory/200603/1143013810801.pdf
AVIC I has produced more than 15,000 aircraft of 20 different
types, 50,000 aero engines of more than 20 categories
GoldenDragonA flood of jet engines in Biblical proportions. Can’t be done by any but a select few nations.
Except for Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, no other nation outside Europe and the US could even assemble a turboprop, even a knock-off, without foreign parts.
Much less 50,000 turbojets like China did while under embargo from both the USSR and the United States during the Cold War.
Countries can copy books, furniture, software or even drugs where the manufacturing process is lightweight.
Engines for a 4,000 aircraft air force? You need organization and manufacturing infrastructure of mammoth proportions.
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