After looking at the picture again, I think the missile should be a YJ-91 rather than Kh-31. All known Kh-31 pictures in the PLA show a dark grey colored missile, not white with striping which is more typical of a development prototype.

Great point. But it could be a mockup which are usually painted white with stripes.

Ah. Of course, if China had got the TVC equipped version you would be posting exactly the reverse. Its quite humorous actually as to how open you are with your feelings. 😀

The only emotional ones here are the MKI supporters. It shows with the silly insults and attempts at mindreading. I have never been an advocate of the Su-30 over the F-15 much less the F-22 and have had many a war over it.

There is also a reason why the air force with the far bigger budget and the far greater need for so-called superior performers (facing F-15s, F-16s and F-18s all around its eastern seaboard) does not have the TVC equipped version of the Su-30. It added more complexities than advantages.

But even that is besides the point. All Su-30s are derivatives of the Su-27UB which in turn is the two-seat version of the Su-27. The planform is same. It was never designed for TVC.

It is clearly silly for someone to use theatric terms like “perfection” ( :rolleyes: ) when comparing a derivative of a plane not quite able to match the American teen series with the most expensive fighter program in history that was designed from the ground up for not only stealth but TVC and supercruise as well.

At any rate, the discussion is about the Super Flanker, the Su-35, not what one thinks is should be the Super Flanker. In the Su-35, one can at least imagine that it would be better than the current monkey versions that Russia always exports without exception.

A J-8. Look at the size of the thing.

Aerodynamics are built into the design. Anyone who actually look the lines of an aircraft could see that right away.

Entirely foolish that you can believe that a planform that was designed for maneuvering based on non-directional thrust like the Su-30 would be anywhere near something like F-22 which was designed for TVC.

The fact that you need to pair canards with TVC is a design flaw that creates extra penalties in weight, level flight and area exposed to radar. You can gain all of the advantages in angle of attack through TVC and creation of vortices without putting on a pair canards (unlike a canard-delta like the Typhoon, in the MKI is also keeping the tailplanes.)

The Flanker’s wings are swept with a high aspect ratio which reduce vortices while the Raptor’s form a delta which creates them.

Aerodynamics aside, there is no chance that a F-22 would ever allow a Su-35 or any of the monkey versions within visual range. It would take failures along a whole chain of command for that to happen.

China never got the Blinders. Remember, USSR-PRC relations were completely ruptured by 1962. China received several Badgers in the 1950s but the Tu-22 was inducted into the Soviet forces themselves at the same time as the Sino-Soviet split was pulling apart in the early 1960s.

So there was no chance that the Soviets ever thought of providing the Blinder to the PRC. It would have formed a nice technical base but it was doubtful the PRC then going into the Cultural Revolution would have been able to reverse engineer it.

Unsure if this is the old F-8IIM around 1998 with the Russian Zhuk radar or the modernized F-8II (still with the export designation of F-8IIM) shown in airshows the last few years.

The surprise is that the Zhuk variant was never shown with the Kh-31 or its Chinese variant. It was never shown with the PL-11 either.

While I would assume the new F-8II with Chinese radar would probably not include the R-27 in its export package. Perhaps Huitiong would know better.

A lot full of new variant H-6s along with JH-7s and JH-7As. Probably a holding lot at Xian. Pcitures first posted in the “China news and speculations” thread in 2004.

Hi all

Knowing the current unclassifield informatons of both planes, if we take the F-22A against the Su-35 in BVR arena, can the Su-35 shoot the Raptor or the Super Flanker doesn’t stand a chance against the F-22A?

Thanks

Let’s answer Marcel’s question without changing the Su-35 to something else to suit some nationalistic needs. He asked about the Su-35 which if intended for the Russian air force would have a N011 or followon radar far beyond what Russia exports. (The term for downgraded exports are known as monkey versions.)

Russia has ALWAYS exported downgrade or monkey versions. Following precedent, the Su-35 would be far and away above any variant exported. Bar none.

Now to the comparison between a Su-35 and the F-22.

To start off with the F-22 has stealth and supercruise. It is in an altogether different generation from the Su-35.

In the BVR arena, the F-22’s main weapon, it would be a later variant of the AMRAAM, has a long track record of knocking down aircraft not stealthy aircraft.

The Su-30 is not designed for stealth which automatically means that any version of AMRAAM or later generation AIM-7 have a very large chance of knocking it down. It would not matter if the Flanker was the Su-35 or any other variant flying anywhere in the world, the AMRAAM can lock on and kill it because it’ll have the same size and the same reflective properties.

Conversely, the main BVR weapon expected to be deployed by the Su-35, the R-77, has not been tested against a stealth aircraft such as the F-22.

Indeed, BVR itself is strictly an American endeavor. Practically 99.9% of the confirmed BVR kills were by AIM-7s and AMRAAMs from US-built platforms.

The odds are heavily stacked against the Su-35 as they would be against any other plane in the world.