If the Russian stories of 100 RD-93s being sold to China is correct then the JF-17 is getting the RD-93 as its powerplant.

There is no possible way that the first 100 FC-1s are going to China alone.

GD,
You think the Python missile series is American technology? If that’s the case then wouldn’t the us Yanks have fielded a weapon in the class of the AIM-9X a long time ago? The Python III has been around since roughly 1982, at the time the U.S. was just introducing the AIM-9L.

The AIM-9L (not research, not testing but PRODUCTION) began in the 1976. A good half-dozen years before the Python 3.

The class of the Python 3? The AIM-9L was in a class of its own when it was introduced. And was still in the class of its own at the Falklands six years later. How the hell did you think non-supersonic Harriers ended up with a 32-0 record against better performing machines?

Simply because the Israelis haven’t come up with their own completely indigenous jet fighter isn’t a reason to assume they are stupid and have no capability to do so.

But they are stupid enough to risk American aid to sell the Lavi to China? And the Chinese are stupid enough buy a failed project from people who “haven’t come up with their own completely indigenous jet fighter”?

Israel has denied input in the J-10. That is an official statement. In order to dispute that official statement, you need to concoct a cockamanie conspiracy theory that the Israelis are lying to the United States.

You are asking us to believe that the Israelis are stupid and greedy to the point of being suicidal.

After heavily studying American and French designs of radar and missiles no doubt. Nothing admirable about selling off your allies.

Not about “study” but wholesale (actually nosale) transfer of American (and French) technology.

But Israel is a nation of 8 million people and builts better Air to air missiles than China and gave assistance in Radars for the J-8II and J-10 and the IAI Lavi to a nation of 1300,000,000 people 😀

No, Israel is a nation of 8 million who have access to US air to air missiles and radars. Israel has no intrinsic ability on its own. It survives on American largess.

Which is why Israel has to be open about its involvement with China like the Python 3, Harpy and Phalcon. And conversely why it would be suicidally stupid for it lie on the J-10.

If Israel denies J-10 involvement, then it was not involved in the J-10. It didn’t deny Harpy or PL-8 and therefore those are openly in the Chinese military. To think otherwise, would be mongering a conspiracy that the Israelis are lying to the US.

Roswell. The Grassy Knoll. X-Files. Conspiracy.

I just happened to come across this forum by chance, but you may be interested to know that I was one of the design engineers working on the Lavi project in 1983 thru 1986. I am not Israeli, I am a British aerospace structural designer, and there were nothing like 1,500 engineers on the project. There were about 500 in total, mostly British, with very few Israelis.
The Israelis mostly headed up groups, but relied heavily on British and American design expertise.
Since the Lavi was cancelled some time ago, and most Israelis were made redundant, I cannot see how China would need any input from Israel.

Very interesting indeed. And far more realistic than people ignoring Israeli official statements on the J-10.

Israel had no track record before or since of being able to design and manufacture an aircraft on its own (Mirage ripoffs not withstanding.)

Actually, from the look of the J-10, one could see the British influence. Perhaps, a cousin of the Eurofighter.

We all know the Russians followed Western design trends for the latest ideas, such as VG wings.

And the Su-27 and MiG-29 came on the heels of the F15 and F-18 for optimal fmulti-role fixed wing design. Soc, you’re stating the obvious. None of this has much to do with the J-10, tho.

PLAWolf’s point that Russia isn’t known for its canard-deltas is valid.

My point is that the MFI (1.42/1.44) wasn’t the first aircraft to fly as a tailless canard in Russia, and that they did have a good deal of research on the concept when the 1.44 was constructed.

There is still no Russian canard-delta in service unlike Europe (and China, depending on whether you believe the J-10 actually exists :D)

Again, Russia is hardly an expert at this particular configuration.

There is no connection of Israel or the Lavi to the J-10 (beyond your opinions.)

So apparently your opinions are what we should all be listening too here? The official denial means nothing.

Idiotic. The official denials are not “opinions.” They are statements on a government’s position on a subject. Israel and China STATE that there is no Israeli involvement in the J-10.

Official denial means “nothing” because of what? Your opinion? You are trying to say what? There is an Israeli conspiracy to lie to the US?

The onus is on you to prove an Israeli conspiracy just as the burden of proof is on the nuts who claim there was an Alien autopsy at Roswell.

Or do you believe in the Alien autopsy and then claim USAF denial as “proof” that the autopsy actually happened? That is same idiotic logic you’re using here.

You’re asking that in relation to the J-10 project….apparently it stretches a bit farther than that, and I hardly thing it’s a “few dollars”. With all of the Israeli technology in the PRC, I’d say that’s a rather pointless question.

There is no official denial of Israeli involvement in Harpy, PL-8 or Phalcon. That is a fact. The Israel government denies J-10. That is fact.

Why deny the J-10 when all the other projects are out in the open? The obvious answer is that there is no Israeli involvement in the J-10 just like there wasn’t in the J-9, the J-10’s delta-canard predecessor.

Grow up. You’re trying to use the stupid occult/UFO crowd’s tactic of calling official denial as “proof.”

If you weren’t so bent on “proving” that the J-10 is totally a completely a Chinese design then you would see what’s really going on.

I’m not here to prove anything. Both Israel and China deny Israeli involvement in the J-10 — not Harpy, not PL-8, not Phalcon. That is fact. I do not need to prove something already proven by an official statement.

You’re trying to “prove” something, not me. You are trying to prove Israeli involvement in something the Israelis themselves deny. Either you’re trying to say you know better than the Israeli government on their own projects or you are concocting an idiotic conspiracy theory.

You’d be better off with that kind of reasoning at the UFO fora, kid.

Both Israel and China have officially denied Israeli involvement.

Officially denied huh? Wow that really convinces me. Even I’m not so ignorant to realize that governments have, do, and always will lie. The U.S. does it, England does it, Israel does it, even China does it,……..everyone does…..

And your opinions are really more convincing than Israel and China? There is no connection of Israel or the Lavi to the J-10 (beyond your opinions.)

Besides, as SOC pointed out, both Israel and China would serve their interests well to keep that type of cooperation a secretive as possible.

Now why would Israel — who depends on the US for its very survival — risk American trust for a few dollars from China? The idea is stupid beyond comprehension.

Never mind why would China buy a design from a country that never produced an advance aircraft on its own.

Let’s make this clear: there is official denial from both Israel and China. This is official.

You want us to suspend our logic and accept your premise that Israel was greedy and ungrateful to the point of being suicidal?