but to say the design of the J-10 is completely Chinese is simply not true, and you know that, yet for some reason you continue to say exactly that.

Why is it simply not true? What great nugget of information do you have to say that is not so? The design is exactly that — a “design.” Israel is no design powerhouse. But forget Israel’s bush-league record in modern military aircraft design for a moment.

Both Israel and China have officially denied Israeli involvement.

I can say for a certainty that you do NOT somehow know better than the governments of Israel and China so it is entirely idiotic for you to say whether the J-10 design is or is not completely Chinese.

From Israeli official declarations, we could say that Israel has no part in it.

According to this, Zimbabwe already received 6 K-8s.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=84&art_id=qw1115216287990B251

Mugabe orders new planes from ‘Asian ally’

May 04 2005 at 04:52PM

Harare – Zimbabwe’s President Robert Mugabe on Wednesday commissioned two of three passenger planes bought from China, praising the Asian nation for standing by his country, which has been cut off from its former friends in the West.

“The delivery of the two aircraft is symbolic of our resolve to foster even stronger ties with our friends who have supported our cause,” Mugabe told hundreds gathered at Harare’s International Airport to see the planes off on their maiden flight to the resort town of Victoria Falls.

“They supported us during our liberation struggle… they have continued to extend a hand of solidarity. The Republic of China is steadily becoming the largest foreign investor in Zimbabwe and our biggest trading partner.”

Following sanctions and isolation by western countries over the political crisis in the country, Zimbabwe has adopted the “Look East” policy, fostering new relations with Asian countries, particularly China, Malaysia, Singapore.

Air Zimbabwe bought the MA60 52-seater planes from the Chinese state-owned AVIC aircraft manufacturer and received a third plane as a gift from the Chinese government.

“We are proud that our national airline is responding to our burgeoning ‘Look East’ policy,” Mugabe said. “Look east, we say, where the sun rises.”

The purchase by Air Zimbabwe comes just weeks after the southern African country took delivery of six Chinese-made Karakorum 8 (K-8) military trainer jets.

The 60-seater propeller planes will take on domestic and regional routes that have been serviced by long-haul Boeing aircraft.

Last month Zimbabwe’s national passenger bus company took delivery of 50 commuter buses bought from First Automobile Works in China. – Sapa-AFP

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-04/28/content_2891938.htm

China aims to sell more aircraft to African market
http://www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-28 23:56:17

CAIRO, April 28 (Xinhuanet) — China National Aero-TechnologyImport and Export Cooperation (CATIC) aims to sell more Chinese-made aircraft to Egyptian and African customers, a senior officialfrom CATIC’s parent company said Thursday.

“Hopefully, we’ll be able to find more partners in the Egyptianand African market with MA60 regional turboprop aircraft,” TangXiaoping, a senior official from AVIC I, said at a products-introducing meeting held at the Egyptian Ministry of CivilAviation.

“MA 60 aircraft are designed and tested with internationally-recognized standards,” said Tang. “They are quite competitive toother regional commercial jets in the international market both interms of reliability and cost-effectiveness.”

During the meeting, CATIC representatives in Egypt used multi-media presentations to familiarize Egyptian civil aviationofficials and business people with the products.

After the meeting, CATIC invited the guests to have a one-hourtest flight with one MA60.

Late Wednesday, two MA60 aircraft, bought by an Zimbabweanairline, stopped over at the Cairo International Airport on its wayto Zimbabwe. It was the first time the Chinese-made MA60 aircraftentered the international market.

???? … I think these are all K-8 !???

Deino

Indeed they are. I was too quick on the draw 😀

Pics from Santa at CMF

1: Q-5 (QJ-5??)

Very good picture! It seems that the Q5J program is rather far along. There are multiple two seaters in that picture.

They were trained in China…but they are also very skilled…as well as we have an indigenous aviation industry which produces pretty much all the parts for these aircraft. In fact…I’m amazed why we didn’t produce whole aircraft too because the factory at Kucova produces everything for these jets…including the jet engines. In 1983 the factory was modernized with Swedesh equipment for making parts…and now the factory is being modernized to produce parts for Bell helicopters.

I mentioned this before when commenting on an AFM feature piece on the AAF. The Albanian aircraft were on the whole in very good condition ESPECIALLY considering that Hoxha broke off relations with Deng’s “pro-American” China 10 years BEFORE the general collapse of Eastern Europe.

So even if the plant at Kucova had stopped work in 1992, it had did good work for years. It should not be totally surprising that the Albanians were able to build/rebuild engines. Both the J-6 and J-7 depended on engines with short-lives and the AAF had been flying them without new Chinese parts since 1977 when Hoxha turned away from China.

As an aside, the AFM piece did say that training suffered in the late 1990s and only a few pilots (including the Air Force Commander) were certified for the fighters, especially the J-7. Lack of money meant that fuel and air time was very limited. But the aircraft were/are kept in good condition unlike other countries that fell into economic problems (the Phillipines for example.) This is probably due to the fact that Albania has a history of dealing with tough conditions even in the best of time.

Another one from the Hong Kong rumor mill.

According to the Chinese forums, a HK business daily said China and France discussed a $12 billion deal for 210 Mirage 2000-9Cs. It would include 1200 MICA BVRAAMs and 180 spare engines.

Supposedly 40 PLAAF pilots would begin training in June on Mirage 2000Bs and the delivery would be 30 new machines in 2006 and 60 each for 2007, 2008 and 2009.

Also,there is discussion 20 ALF-3 Atlantique patrol craft.

All is dependent on the lifting of the European embargo, of course.

Take this rumor with extra large dose of salt 😀

Very interesting. The Albania-Greece and Yuguslavia-Italy actions are practically unknown in the US.

How was Yuguslavia able to invade Italy for the Slovenes in the late 1940s and not have Allied retaliation? I do recall that there were changes in the border demarcations (Trieste?) after WWII but I don’t recall Yugoslavia and Italy actually coming to blows post-1945.