I think it’s related to the indian version of the PAK FA. Anyway wasn’t PAK FA supposed to fly in 2006 for the first time? On time after time has pased, after time has passed… Well according the latest schedule probably “on time”;)

That’s exactly what I wanted to say … but if I’m corect some guys here still tend to say that everything goes on as planned … there are no delays, there won’t be any delays in the future …

I think it’s the same with some model-kits from Trumpeter: They were announced with a lot of hello ….

I believe it, when I see this “beast” in real …. 😎 … but maybe here they are correct: it l fly first time on time.

Deino

… and so it will be delayed even more and more !! 😡

Besides that I always wondered why China didn’t join this project. There’s nothing comparable – esp. the S-92 and EH-101 – available for them on the open maket and everything else – the NH-90 – is smaller or not available too. :confused:

It would be a neat replacement for their Z-8 and later for all the Hips.

Deino

Sorry, in my hurry to post it forgot the credits:

Was posted at CDF by a new member called hbogyt

wonder whether hbogyt is actually one of those officially sanctioned ‘leakers’ 😀

Uppss … I just posted the same in the PLAAF-tread and forgot to mention the source too !

… but I had the same idea about an officially sanctioned ‘leaker’

Deino

U brought China that it can built 5th generation faster. when China hasnt developed anything on scale of Su-34.
J-10/LCA/EF/Rafale/Gripen are examples of delayed fighters for there intended role. while Su-34 is not as Sukhoi has claimed that it is completely immune to airdefence systems.
F-22 is not delayed program as there is atleast claim with that it can defeat all air threats. Su-34 is even more so that it has unlimited upgrade potential without changing aerodynamics and still doing Strike & ASW/EW platform.

Yes I opened up that China-issue, but maybe You don’t want to read !!

I said that an Indian version of the PAK-FA will be much delayed and that I expect (YES, in my opinion) that this version will probably be later than the Chinese XXJ. The Russian T-50 will fly next year … but when will flight testing be finished ???

And also the Russian PAK-FA is … and most likely will be delayed.

Regarding the other delays … some of You guys always quote performances and so on of the Su-35 as the rurrent “top-Russian” fighter to date !

That may be true but it is currently under flight testing, if I’m correct the second prototype just made its first flight a few days ago (http://de.rian.ru/safety/20081002/117390559.html). None of these performances, which are quoted in several glossy Suckhoi advertisments are prooven or its weapons system integrated, esp. these ultra-long-range AAMs.

How could You expect the T-50 to be fielded in substantial numbers in Russian service at around 2015 if this current top-Flanker-version will only be ready (following this link above) in 2011.

Again bringing China into that game … I never said that China’s XXJ will be better nor do I want to say Russia can’t build such a fighter esp. with keeping in mind Russia’s history of developing fighters. But by comparing the progress and speed of progress of the Chinese avaition industry and the Russian in its current state I would say in the distant future – esp. as the Chinese aviation industry isn’t that divided – I expect greater steps again from China.

Yes, the J-10 had a very prolonged, troubled and assisted development, … but the J-10 has a secured future.
Yes, the same for the FC-1 … but just take a look of its current form, it already is flying in numbers, something no-one would have expected from China during the last decades.
I don’t compare both to other fighters other countries have developed decades before … but I try to compare with each country’s projects before !

J-8 to J-10/FC-1 and maybe XXJ
MiG-23 – MiG-29/Su-27 and now PAK-FA

And Russia; Your mighty aviation giant ?? The Su-34 is delayed, the Su-27SM is flying in how many regiments (1-2 ??), the Su-27BM (alias Su-35) is flying in two prototypes without flight testing finished … and You want to tell me that the PAK-FA won’t be delayed ! (and Yes no more or less as other top-military projects all over the world like the F-22, the Typhoon, the Rafale, the JSF, … and esp. the LCA)

That’s all … just read what I wrote.

Deino 😉

The Su-34 has no western equivalent, is an F-111 with Su-27 capabilities, compared to any Chinese design still is far far more advanced, the JH-7 still is a 1980s design and the J-10 can be beaten by well armed MiG-29s or F-16s however the SU-34 as a bomber has no equivalent yet, besides Russia still has Tu-160s that China has not.
In fact the Su-34 is three times more capable than the Su-24 and that is also the same compared to a JH-7
the PAK FA will be a fighter very likely 10 or 15 years ahead of any thing Chinese, because Russia has already started building the machine and China has only shown artistic renditions without a company supporting them.

Russia has built more than 2500 MiG-29s and Su-27s, China still is basicly replacing third generation aircraft.
How many J-10s has built China? well less than the Russians have built Su-27s and MiG-29s since 1998

Agreed … but that may be as correct as the heaven is blue !
My point was only that the Su-34 is a very much delayed programme with a lot of time between each aircraft delivered … You can’t ignore that even if there my be reasons for that.
I also said only that I expect an Indian export-version of the T-50 only in the far future – long after the Russian model is already flying … and that maybe the Chinese XXJ is then flying too.

Wrong is Your statement about a project “China has only shown (in) artistic renditions without a company supporting them” as it is accepted and published that the XXJ will be developed in cooperation by CAC (leading the design) and SAC … how long it will last until it will fly – maybe 2012 – was not to debate ! I said only the Indian version is IMO onyl very far away.

And anything elso about the hundreds of MiG-29 and Su-27 and the few J-10 has nothing to do with that.

Deino

…. and don’t forget the Chinese XXJ-project from Chengdu !

I’m not sure but I would say untill the first PAK-FA-MKI reaches India … the first XXJ would most likely have its first flight.

Please: Don’t understand this as an India vs. China statement – and esp. pro Chinese – but regarding the speed of progress in Russian aviation programmes in comparison to Chinese ones … and esp. keeping in mind that the export-version would follow with a substantial delay after the Russian version, I feel free to say that.

Regarding a possible in service date I don’t want to say anything.

Deino

I already asked somewhere else, but so far without any explanation …

Does anyone know what this H-6 – looks like an early machine – has on its tail ??? … at first I ws thinking about something like a ECM-/ or ESM-pod but IMO surely not a RATO/JATO Bottles as suggested otherwise … even if they look similar

Cheers, Deino :confused:

“Fascinating, Captain.”

Yes, they are … and hopefully the PLAAF will later add also unit-insignias to their J-10 !

Cheers, Deino