Yeah Deino the Russians and the US do not say Israel passed technology to China :rolleyes: in fact all what you say to defend the J-10 is a oversimplified logic that tries to cover the sun with a thumb or dig the head on the ground, In Russia they sustain the J-10 has Israeli technology and in Israel some people acknowledges it, i do not care if it fits your agenda, you self promoted expertise or you history of Chinese aviation well or not, however outside this forum in the outside world in Russia and Israel they do not believe your theories or what people write here as much as you think, the Russians have their own experts and their own sources and in Russia the J-10 is consider a descendant of the Lavi and that it has israeli technology.
you can reject it, you can attack me or claim me crazy a loon or what ever but i will believe those sources because Russia does not need to follow or say the J-10 is a Lavi modified in China for a national interest, your like it or not In Russia they do not care about your opinion or history of the J-10 for their historians the russian sources that claim that are basicly their engineers that worked in China you can keep your history of the J-10 in reality i do not care, i only show you that in Russia they have another version much different than yours and Haaretz and the Jerusalm post supported it
Hmm .. maybe You are partly right, but just let me say – IMO – that Your style of discussion is sometimes quite strange; You often post pages of pages of information – sometimes very interesting – and sometimes – IMO – dated or irrelevant as they come – one again IMO – from not that reliable sources.
The biggest problem is not that I want to defend my “self promoted expertise or history of Chinese aviation” but after collecting information on that topic for many years also from several sources with different points I came to my conclusion what’s most likely probable or not. Agreed that’s an opinion that’s baked by as many “sources” as You point of view can be baked by other sources.
And that’s again the point: I don’t think that I have a subscription of truth, nor that I know anything, but since no official statement, denial or proof has so long been given by Chengdu, AVIC, IAI or even Mikoyan its quite difficult to know what really happened. That there have been close contacts, that both aircraft share a very similar design, that there are several systems related to a foreign assistance, YES … but a Lavi-clone – in the meaning of a near identical copy nor a development – is 100% nonsense in the same way as the A.310 is not a copy of the B. 767 or vice versa.
I would agree that the Kfir is a development of the Mirage III/V, that the F-2 is a development of the F-16, the Su-34 and the Su-27, the F-4K/M and the F-4J but there a quantum leap + change in details much greater between the Lavi and the J-10.
So if I have two different points of views which are so much contradicting to each other I prefer the most likely one, and that’s – IMO – not very likely the one stated by Kommersant, Haaretz, the Jerusalem post, airwar.ru, or whatever.
Maybe someday we will know more, any maybe it would be interesting to sit together, drink 1,2,3, … glases of whine (or beer if You prefer) and discuss from face to face that topic as I think we both aren’t that far away from truth (or be both are as far away); only You from left and me from right and the truth is right in the middle.
cheers, Deino
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