I am aware of the different designation schema… I am just enjoying the IRST under the nose validation on both the -20 and -31 🙂

I’ve only seen the 1200+ figure, but that is internal fuel only.

what a deal….

The price of the plane, heck, any plane, has always been for the initial hardware.

Why would you start shifting costs around now?

This is how costs have always been judged. Don’t start screwing with it just to try an make it more expensive to “buy”.

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You have a real comprehension problem, don’t you?

The VAST majority of issues dealing with the F-35 will be dealt with organically, just like the F-16 today, just like in a car dealership.

What will be different with the F-35 is that it will model how a car dealership is run. For the more complex pieces of equipment, they will simply replace the part, just like in a car dealership. I did not say the plane is sent to the part, but the part to the plane (I’ll repost the pic so you can see the plan again). The broken part will then be sent to a depot, fixed, re-certified, and put back in the pool is appropriate. This is how it’s done in a car dealership. They don’t re-wind alternators, repair boards in the stereo, re-spec an engine, etc. They just swap parts and do moderate repairs.

I am not saying that a F-35 will never be sent whole to a FACO for repair, but those times will be very few and far between. The partners know this and accept it as a tradeoff to saving a ton of money by not having to build their own FACO (which they would still have to land/air/boat ship the airframe to, so no valid argument there).

btw, You might want to do more research on how JSF contracts work because most do not include any long term parts, support, upgrades, etc. Even it they are (very bid specific and do not include ANY of the JSF Partners), they are ALWAYS covered under separate contracts (even if included in the agreed-upon bid) and not under the procurement contract. Currently, only the Procurement contracts are “fixed price” as the jet is still under SDD. Parts and sustainment have always been “cost plus” and will be so for a little while longer until more is known about lifetime wear & tear profiles.

The fact that you think the $15+ mil was “over” what was expected speaks volumes about your lack of understanding on how contracting works, especially with the JSF. Take a few minutes and Google & read the FY2015 budget docs and you will see that Appropriation, Development, Support, Upgrades, Parts, Training, etc are all separate line items that are contracted separately.

Here is way the logistics works, notice that 2 levels of maintenance is done organically.

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By the way…. I don;t know what “Car dealership” YOU go to….but here, I take my car to the LOCAL dealership and it is fixed there ON site!…it doesn;t go from location to location…the parts needed are brought into THAT site and the mechanics employed there FIX IT. They don’t send it back to the factory……..and the Car dealership DOES handle the repairs for the life of the car!…parts are kept in their stores, mechanics still work there and it costs the cost of parts and then labour on top of that….that is how the world works……….If I had to pay for my car to be dissassembled or shipped whole to another country to get the work done on it…because my local “dealer” couldn;t do it…….I wouldn;t buy that type of car…because it is NOT cost effective nor efficient….would you?

You do realize that you just made my point, don’t you?

A dealership has a store of parts and the mechanics to install them. However, it does not manufacture or repair the parts. If an alternarory is bad, it puts in a new one. It then sells the old one to a scrapper for a rebuild and to be sold on the aftermarket parts market. It does not actually fix any part, it only replaces parts (ie LRUs).

And yes, the car does got to other places as needed. Depending on the repair, the car may go to a body shot of extensive after-collision repair, a paintshop for a new coat, etc. Few, if any, dealerships have their own paint and body shops as they take up a lot of space and require specialized mechanics that are not used very often.

btw, The planes should never have to go back to LM. In the worst case (major structural damage) they would go back to the nearest FACO (Italy, Japan, etc) Even full Block upgrades are done in-country.

Keep in mind that the JPO has already stated that 19 new worldwide repair facilities are plannend for the next 5 years.

er, no… If I buy a car there are a few HUUUUUGE differencies:

You are obvious having a problem understanding the difference between buying an already developed plane (Known Costs and Timelines) and paying someone to develop something new (Unknown Costs and Timelines). As the SDD program progresses, the contracts will and already have started to, transition from a “Cost plus” to a “Fixed price” type.

In either case, the contracts only cover the buying of the plane and do not include any upgrades, sustainment, or parts for said plane going forward.

If you have an issue with one the 8 contracts, then say so but to cover all 8 with a wide brush of disingenuous disgust helps nobody understand the issues.

If you have the4 F-35 then you have access to a C5, C17, AN-124, etc that can move the plane (sans wings) wherever you want it to go. Then there is always the option to put it on a boat.

Worst case scenario is that a crew gets sent in country to do the stripdown and repair.

These options are not something that they have not thought of already. They have balanced all repair risks against the tremendous cost savings of the F-35’s distributed logistics and sustainment network.

btw, Take a chill-pill on the contracts. Get back to me when you know what 8 contracts they are and what they cover. Blowing a gasket without knowing what is covered and if it not a normal expense just makes you look bad. Even the original poster admitted they included new parts, ongoing sustainment, concurrency etc.

Both F-35s (CF-03 and CF-05) are now aboard.

The also did Touch-n-Go