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SpudmanWP

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Viewing 15 posts - 2,221 through 2,235 (of 4,849 total)
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  • in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2259700
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    I was careful to COMBINE both of the Airframe and Engine charts 🙂

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2259721
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    OK, I will make it simple… say Norway ordered 52 F-35s in 2018 with deliveries commencing 2021 with first two aircraft and then continuing at a yearly rate of 10 airframes between 2022 and 2026. I think that is precise enough for the calculation.

    Detailed cost estimations are not available post-2017. However, we can look at the SAR for a more generalized cost.

    Per the December 2012 SAR in “Then Year” REC Flyaway dollars:

    FY QTY Total % Diff<br />
    2012 18 129<br />
    2013 19 123 -4.5<br />
    2014 19 124 1.0<br />
    2015 30 114 -9.6<br />
    2016 44 100 -13.1<br />
    2017 48 96 -4.6<br />
    2018 60 87 -10.2<br />
    2019 60 84 -3.2<br />
    2020 60 87 2.9<br />
    2021 80 84 -3.2<br />
    2022 80 85 1.1<br />
    2023 80 87 2.4<br />
    2024 80 89 1.9<br />
    2025 80 91 2.7<br />
    2026 80 94 2.5<br />
    2027 80 95 1.7<br />
    2028 80 97 1.8<br />
    2029 80 99 1.8<br />
    2030 80 101 2.0<br />
    2031 80 104 2.8<br />
    2032 80 106 2.4<br />
    2033 80 110 3.6<br />
    2034 80 113 2.1<br />
    2035 80 115 2.1<br />

    We can see that prices for the plane continue to drop till 2022 where inflation overcomes previous Economy of Scale savings.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2259739
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Mostly projections but last year’s DoD report on F-35 concurrency is quite informative. While the average cost of concurrency for the LRIP aircraft is projected at $5.8M, the older units (LRIP 1-4) have costs in excess of $15M each.

    Ah, that’s what confused me. Thanks for straightening me out on the source of your $6 mil figure.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2259802
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    OK, so what would be the price for the same package in 2017-18? A rough estimate will suffice.

    You would have to know the purchase & delivery years involved in the various proposals in order to give you an accurate number.

    In my cost reporting, I stayed away from Recurring Flyways costs (per your request) but they truly are the only way to gauge year-to-year changes in the cost of the F-35 alone. Take the example of the LRIP7/8 costs in my post above. They look identical but that is due to the USAF spending more money non-plane costs in LRIP8 than they did in LRIP7. The REC Flyaway cost of a LRIP7 F-35A was $124.8 mil and the LRIP8 F-35 was $120.7 mil so the price of the jet dropped 3.5% without a rise in build rate.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2259908
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Compare Weapon System Cost from various years for the F-35A (per the latest Budget doc which will be updated in less than a month):

    Previous years – $216 mil
    LRIP6 FY2012 – $197 mil @ 18 airframes
    LRIP7 FY2013 – $176 mil @ 19 airframes
    LRIP8 FY2014 – $176 mil (no change in build rate from previous year at 19 airframes)
    LRIP9 FY2015 – $142 mil @ 30 airframes
    LRIP10 FY2016 – $128 mil @ 44 airframes
    LRIP11 or FRP, not sure FY2017 – $96 mil @ 60 airframes

    Economy of Scale has been showing a benefit to F-35 production since Day One.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2260021
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Per page 5 of this USAF FY2014 budget doc (F-35A only):

    http://www.dtic.mil/procurement/Y2014/AirForce/P40_F03500_BSA-2_BA-5_APP-3010F_PB_2014.pdf

    The USAF is buying 11 upgrade kits (upgrade to Block 3i) at a total cost of $65 million ($63 mil includes the kit, support, and spares then another $2 mil for install labor in FY2016). From FY2014 thru FY2017 they are planning to buy 45 upgrade kits covering LRIPs 2-5 (USAF only as USN has their own docs & line items for the F-35B&C). There is a two year lead on these kits. In other words, FY2014 kits will be installed in FY2016.

    Page 7 of the same PDF covers the USAF portion of the Concurrency costs. Notice that it is paid for on an annual bases, fluctuates a lot, and does not mention any kit numbers (number of planes upgraded per year).

    We will be getting updated numbers within the month when the new FY2015 budget is released.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2260106
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Per the budget docs, Block upgrade costs and it’s included Tech Refresh costs are on a separate line item than Concurrency (bulkheads, generator, etc) costs. The reason is simple as each plane’s Concurrency costs are separate, even withing the same build year.

    The Estimated $6 mil is just the Block 2B to Block 3i upgrade cost and does not include Concurrency costs.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2260857
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    I have yet to see a report that compares the two options. You would think that BS would have come up with one if Concurrency were more expensive.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2260916
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    When you look at the cost of Concurrency vs the cost of keeping the existing fleet flying for 10 more years, Concurrency was a justifiable option.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2261181
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Keep in mind that the South Korean prices reflect F-35 LRIP pricing to a large degree.

    Wait a few years and the price drops considerably while the F-15SE price remains the same or higher (inflation is a bitch).

    in reply to: The PAK-FA News, Pics & Debate Thread XXIV #2213801
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    The RCS of an object does not change with range.

    What does change is the reflected radar energy that returns to the radar source.

    in reply to: F-14 unknown missiles #1789093
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Isn’t the museum at March beautiful?

    I think it has the only A-9 (lost to the A-10) also.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2219874
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    While there are many factors that caused prices to rise, the butchering of the ramp-up and max build rate are the main drivers of the increased prices in LRIP.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2219934
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    It might be wise to warn the chaps who dont usually follow the Budget documents that the numbers present there are correct for the year in question and the for past, they have been (very) inacurate for future predictions, and year, after year, after year the aircrafts ended up being more expensive than what was written in the previous years budget.

    They would be more accurate if they would stop backing away from Concurrency commitments and blowing the build rate increases.

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2219999
    SpudmanWP
    Participant

    Now, Scooter et al, what is the price of F-35A for delivery in 2017? Is it $150+ million? $150 million? $125 million? $100 million? Less than $100 million?

    Per the FY2014 budget at http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-130408-079.pdf (page 66) the Total Flyaway Cost for a F-35 is $127/113/108/96 for jets ordered in 2015-2018. The prices will be lower if & when South Korea orders their jets.

    This is Total Flyaway Cost only and will be a little higher when delivery, initial training, initial parts, etc are included.

Viewing 15 posts - 2,221 through 2,235 (of 4,849 total)