You guys missed the point of the 3 out of 8 missed snags… the hook never saw the wire not that the wire could not catch.

Follow the threads closer and you’ll figure it out 😉

Get your point but I dont agree. The average price of all aircraft incl LRIP is what matters in a apples to apples comparison. IMHO the extra cost for aircraft based in US for training should also included.

For our Partners and FMS customers, they can give a rat’s A$$ what we pay for LRIP planes. They are only concerned with what it will cost them.

For the US, yes, it is proper to look at every penny when judging the average cost of our buy over the lifetime of the program.

When the costs for the EF and Rafale were presented to India, were their respective LRIP costs included or was it what their current costs were?

The reason that LRIP costs are not relevant in “apples to apples” comparisons is that the mere fact that we are comparing foreign jets to the F-35 means that it’s theoretical FMS/Partner sale and you are presenting what the F-35 would cost if they buy it in a certain timeframe.

Nope.

The Hornets and Vipers were designed, from day one, with A2A as a secondary role, aka multi-role (in the F-16’s case, it’s initial A2A role was only WVR).

btw, I know it’s been said and ignored by most, but several in the program, the JPO, the DoD, and and from Partner nations have said that the F-35’s A2A will be 2nd only to the F-22. There is also the piloted simulations (both Blue and Red) that Australia talked about in testimony last year where the F-35 beat “Advanced Red Air” with a greater than 6:1 ratio while being outnumbered by the Red 2:1 (a 4 vs 8 scenario in the 2020-2025 timeframe).

Obviously, as more of the OT&E and operational squadrons come online and participate in Red Flag, Northern Edge, and Bold Alligator type scenarios the picture will become clearer.

I thought they recently published some numbers? Wasnt’ it 30-32,000 USD per hour or something like that?

Everything is still being based on numbers form 4th gen experiences and maintenance assumptions. Recent announcements from the USAF has said that they will be coming out with new numbers this fall after looking at real numbers from the program and they expect the numbers to fall significantly.

Depending on how open the Korean and Canadian decisions are, we may finally get an apples-to-apple comparison of the F-35 with other systems.

right now, any fighter aircraft, except maybe the F-22 is LESS expensive than the F-35 to operate.

No partner “right now” is buying large amounts of F-35s for their fleets, so LRIP pricing is not relevant. A report due out this fall will finaly shed some real-world light on the long term costs of the F-35 based on real-world values instead of 4th gen assumptions.

No its not! What about the Iranian Q-313? It’s reall. And everyone was laughting at at first. But they dont laugh anymore.

News Flash:

We’re still laughing :highly_amused:

The biggest issue to date has been that the size of the electronics has been too large.

As tech improves, you will begin to see multi-mode A2A missiles and there are sever in the works right now.