SpudmanWPDo some more research…. EODAS has it’s own processors 🙂
F-35 Sensors Track Ballistic Missiles in Tests: Northrop Grumman announced June 26 that it recently demonstrated the ballistic missile detection and tracking capabilities of its AN/AAQ-37 distributed aperture system and AN/APG-81 active electronically scanned array radar.
These sensors are featured on the F-35 strike fighter, but were resident aboard the company’s BAC1-11 test bed aircraft during these tests, which the company coordinated with five NASA experimental rocket launches. “
Northrop Grumman demonstrated these ballistic missile tracking modes with only minor modifications to the baseline F-35 radar and DAS software,” said Jeff Leavitt, vice president of Northrop Grumman’s combat avionic systems business unit.
The DAS and APG-81 autonomously detected, tracked, and targeted multiple, simultaneous ballistic rockets, according to the company’s release. DAS detected all five rockets—which were launched in rapid succession—and tracked them from initial launch well past the second-stage burnout, notes the release.
This wasn’t the first time that DAS tracked ballistic missiles.
You can’t have software without a CPU to drive it 🙂
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/F35_DAS_Demonstrates_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_Capabilities_999.html
“We have only scratched the surface on the number of functions the F-35’s DAS is capable of providing. With DAS, we’ve combined instantaneous 360-degree spherical coverage, high frame refresh rates, high resolution, high sensitivity powerful processors and advanced algorithms into a single system. The number of possibilities is endless.”
“The DAS software architecture already includes missile detection and tracking algorithms that can be applied to the BMD mission,” Bouchard added. “The results of the flight test were extraordinary. We found that the data gathered during this flight validated our performance predictions. In fact, we knew we could have seen the rocket at a longer distance.”
Architecture, Algorithms, & Processors = EODAS CPUs 🙂
The EODAS provides that track info and the ICP fuses it into the battlespace picture.
Why is that so hard to understand?
—————–Confirmed———————
EODAS Northern Edge Capabilities are Block 2, not Block 3
http://www.northropgrumman.com/Paris/briefings/assets/2011-paris-tsd-briefing.pdf
AAQ-37 DAS was tested with JSF Block 2 delivery software and displayed its spherical situational awareness and target tracking capabilities during its operational environment debut
SpudmanWPyup, The SDD program just got their last jet in 2012….
SpudmanWPThings to consider.
1. EODAS coverage zones overlap a little so a track handoff from one zone to another should not be a problem.
2. EODAS CPU and IIR sensors are nearly 10 years old.
3. Any future upgrades that increase the EODAS’s pixel count would also increase the EODAS’s CPU capacity to handle it (thanks to Moore’s Law). CPU power is scaling faster than IIR sensor capabilities.
4. The majority of information processing is handled by the EODAS units themselves, not the F-35’s ICP.
5. As the EODAS increases in it’s capability to track more & farther targets, the F-35’s ICP would be upgraded to handle in the increased track load (publicly disclosed at 100 “Situational Awareness” tracks, 8 A2A “Weapon’s Grade” tracks, and 16 A2G “Weapon’s Grade” tracks).
6. The F-35’s ICP is due for it’s second major upgrade since the beginning of the program when it gets TR2 (Tech Refresh) with Blk3i.
SpudmanWPAs a matter of fact I do know about it, somewhat. I am a SQL & VB programmer.
Granted I do not do the level of programming involved with EODAS, but I have a decent grasp of what is involved.
What makes you think that the integration is not already done, especially given the program announcements, Block plans, performance at Northern Edge & Bold Alligator, and NG’s dedication of time & money developing post-SDD features?
Also, don’t forget that there are 6 EODAS units so even with 50+ tracks, it’s only 10 per unit.
SpudmanWPLike I said before, EODAS is likely already integrated fully by 2A and has been demonstrated at Northern Edge and Bold Alligator.
EODAS is one of the easiest sensors to integrate due to the data that it provides. It only provides a track number, track type, and track coordinates. Video feeds are also available as needed. That’s it, plain and simple. EODAS is also easy to integrate due to it being a one way street. Info comes from the unit not to the unit. The most complex system to integrate was the radar & ESM as they talk to each other on a pulse-by-pulse basis.
btw, The system with the largest chunk of code is the maintenance system not a combat system.
SpudmanWP@LO:
Your original comment was
Passive air-to-air tracking will be a remarkable achievement if it can be done. However, resolving ambiguities and false alarms to the degree required to perform a LOAL shot (particularly outside the pilot’s direct view and at ranges where the target is subpixel) could be a tad hairy.
Those questions have been answered. The EODAS units themselves handle the detection, tracking, etc, not the F-35’s CIP. The only thing begin provided to the F-35’s Mission Systems is the track data and video feeds when needed. The CIP is not handling any analysis of the raw images.
The integration into the Mission Systems is done for the most part (if not in it’s entirety) as has been demonstrated at Northern Edge, Bold Alligator, etc.
SpudmanWPTo be scrupulously honest, the EO-DAS &c can’t do that yet.
A2A & A2G (SAM & AAA) yes, A2G (tank fire, BMD, etc) not yet.
Passive air-to-air tracking will be a remarkable achievement if it can be done. However, resolving ambiguities and false alarms to the degree required to perform a LOAL shot (particularly outside the pilot’s direct view and at ranges where the target is subpixel) could be a tad hairy.
All of the required software on the EODAS side of things has been delivered and has been flying for years. It’s capabilities have been demonstrated, in the air, for years at multiple Northern Edge, Bold Alligator, etc exercises in combat relevant environments. The only thing that remains is to integrate the data provided from EODAS into the rest of the F-35 mission systems. NG is so comfortable with EODAS’s capabilities that they have already begun development of post Block 3 capabilities like BMD tracking and the recent A2G functions.
Production (ie required for Blk3F) EODAS software was delivered tot he JSF program in 2010 thereby freeing NG to further develope EODAS’s capabilities. Baring something that pops up in SDD, EODAS SDD software is done.
Northrop Grumman is now exploring how the existing DAS technology could assist in several additional mission areas, including Ballistic Missile Defense and irregular warfare operations.
Northrop Grumman’s Electronic Systems sector designed and produces the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter AN/AAQ-37 DAS. The DAS F-35 software that includes algorithms for all JSF functions was delivered to Lockheed Martin Corporation earlier this year.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/F35_DAS_Demonstrates_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_Capabilities_999.html
http://news.morningstar.com/all/globe-news-wire/10021210/northrop-grumman-aaq-37-sensor-system-demonstrates-hostile-fire-detection-capability.aspx
And while JSF does not have NVGs, it still has the second high-rez sensor on the helmet.
The helmet mounted sensor is a backup and is still IIR rather than the old IR (green & black) style. In either case the image is displayed on the visor rather than on fold-down, low-FOV NVGs.
SpudmanWPSo? That is a valid statement if you look at the context.
Really?? Which systems can do any of those functions I listed?
Sensor and datafusion between aircraft currently using the pods give a very similar capability to the marketed one.
Really?? You’re going to compare a RECCE pod that is not used on combat equipped fighters to systems on EVERY f-35?
I dont see any new things in the F35 and pretty much everything they market (except for the level of stealth) has been fielded in either the Rafale, EF or Gripen for a very long time.
Really?? Let’s try this again. No beamed datalinks, no 360 IIR WVR tracking, no AESA radar, no internal IRST/FLIR, etc.
The option to fit 360 degree coverage exists.
Really?? The Rafale is not 360 and no other 360 system (save maybe Pak-Fa) exists.
I showed you multiple IRST-systems when you asked for it,
Really?? The Mig-35 has one IRST and one FLIR and is NOT operational or on order.
SpudmanWP@Tu22m:
You seem to enjoy moving the goalposts in you arguments when proven wrong. “Currently fielded system… Together with integrated MAWS it offers pretty much the same functions as marketed in the F35 video.”
You are flat wrong. No system (or combination of systems) on a Gripen can produce a 360 IIR view of the battlefield; keep track of every WVR object in the sky passively (especially in a furball); be used to not only cue a missile shot but also provide updated tracking info for the missile in flight; detect, geolocate, track, and designate targets of AAA & SAM; detect & geolocate cannon, mortar, rocket fire, etc; negate the need for NVGs, provide live BDA, etc.
As I have ALWAYS said, the systems on an F-35 that make it unique will not always be so…. just try to stick to real world systems when making comparisons. The Rafale’s DDM-NG is a step in the right direction but the Mig-35 is still in development and involves designing an airframe with multiple IRST modules. The primary IRST (OLS-UEM) only covers the front hemisphere, the lower IRST (OLS-K) is only for A2G and does not claim A2A modes, and SOAR is only a MAWS. It still cannot do 360 staring and will lose track of objects in a furball.
The problem with claiming an IRST does the same functions as EODAS are many fold:
A. EODAS sees 360 and never looks away from a track
B. No matter how the F-35 maneuvers, the EODAS will never loose sight of a track
C. Because EODAS is used in conjunction with and IRST (EOTS), the IRST can concentrate on detection, ID, and tracking of long range targets without worrying about nearby threats.
In case you missed the news, there dozens of F-35 flying today & the 100th is in production, the IOT&E unit at Nellis AFB (home of Red Flag) will be getting 4 Blk2A F-35s this month, the F-35’s first operational unit not only started receiving F-35s but will have their full compliment of 13 jets this year, the USMC plans to declare IOC for the F-35B in 2014/15, 30 more F-35s to be delivered this year, etc. We’re well beyond the point of what is real and what is make believe when it comes to the F-35.
As a side note, the F-22 was the first fighter to operationally use a beamed datalink.
@LO:
MADL & EODAS are part of Blk2B.
Here is some quick Google Fu—-
Blk-1B: EODAS HMD integration, CNI
Blk-2A: MADL, Link-16, Additional Radar Modes, Countermeasures, Fusion Updates, Simulated Weapons Training, EOTS in A2G mode, ESM modes, EODAS tracking, maintenance data link, and a mission debriefing system.
Blk-2B: Advanced Datalinks, Fusion Updates
It’s part of the record. Try to stay current 😉
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f35_article.html?item_id=110
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lockheed-addresses-pentagon-f-35-dote-report-381218/
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012annual_psr/WERTH.pdf
@Msphere:
Yes, the DDM-NG units are placed one on each side of the fin. Google DDM-NG
Keep in mind that EODAS dev started a decade ago & I am not sure when the chip tech was frozen. I would be willing to bet that in TR3 or TR4 we’ll see a major capability upgrade in the EODAS sensors. Just think how much better the sensor will be with 15-20 years separating the two.
SpudmanWP1. For the most part the Gripen E is a paper airplane. While parts of it are flying, the airframe is not. The F-35 is flying, is in production, and will be IOC within two years (F-35B).
2. Multiple IRST cameras?? Try to stick to real world systems.
3. Those systems do not exist. We are discussing real world stuff, not make believe.
4. No an IRST cannot tell you all of that because it cannot look at all directions at once.
5. Name a fighter that does night ops with something besides nvgs?
Quite moving the goalposts and stick with real-world systems.
SpudmanWPToo true.
EODAS sensors are actually a decade old.
One thing to keep in mind is that the EODAS sensors themselves determine target type and location and only pass the tracking data to the main computer. They also provide a video image on demand.
Better EODAS sensor chips will allow it to detect at longer ranges and with better accuracies. Due to the design of the F-35’s avionics, it could be a drop-in with later block upgrades that can take advantage of any new functions available.
SpudmanWPI don’t think it’s true.
Here is a Hi-Res FOV shot showing the area of the FOV that is blocked by the airframe.
Also note that the clarity of the shot is much better in the EODAS images.
Hi-Res version
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt271/SpudmanWP/DDG-NG_zps1e5caa77.jpg
SpudmanWPPlease keep opinions and hit pieces on the debate thread, this is the news thread.
SpudmanWPLatency issue is below spec per the latest DOT&E.
Latency of the projected imagery from the
DAS is currently down to 133 milliseconds, below the
human factors derived maximum of 150 milliseconds,
but still requires additional testing to verify adequacy
SpudmanWPThe problem is that when you need a specific mission done, you have only a select few aircraft to choose from. Any losses (wartime, peacetime accident or maintenance downtime) will have a greater impact on availability with dedicated airframes.
This is the reason why ALL modern Air Forces are going with primarily multi-role fighters.
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