My concern is the perpetuation of the hatred of WW2 and passing this on to generations essentially completely unaffected by these events. Suggesting e.g. that a German mayoress should be dropped from the BBMF Lancaster , and drawing parallels to WW2 for latter-day situations and events very often does exactly this.

I don’t hate Germans simply trying to point out why they were bombed I have drawn no parallels with modern day Germany. The comment about the Lancaster was tongue in cheek, a sort of humour as I am sure many of the other posts were. You need some lessons in British humour maybe?
Attacks on the Germans you mention happen to all nationalities including British we could quote these incidents all day it doesn’t mean they are because of the war or because they are discussed here.
It seems you would end all discussion on what happened?

[QUOTE=vanir;1635702]These topics do tend to become proxies for disconcerting general points of view, ignorances and misconception and hence will often carry ill will sheathed in discussion. Even heavily moderated forums find this.

A remarkable political ignorance. Disconcerting it is simply childish

Form of racism the Nazis had.

Ridiculous

Ignorance

I have no wish to continue with a political discussion as everyone is already soundly fed up with it, however I have been named and the words used to describe my posts break forum rules as they are direct insults.
Personally I haven’t made any judgements on other peoples posts or insulted them.
So far in this post I seem to have been called a Nazi racist, childish and ignorant.
Personally I am not so arrogant as to assume I can work out a person’s political views or beliefs from a few lines on a forum. Nore am I going to insult you in return.
I have tried to stay factual and draw sensible conclusions based on evidence; clearly I am not well enough educated to pull this off.

I quote from Vanir

My family’s from Bremen, I’m first gen Aussie. Unfortunately grandparents were indeed faithful Nazi however, but at least I got a few anecdotal insights growing up to balance out topical research, [Bcertain things I recall my grandparents pointing out as misconceptions have since appeared in mainstream publication.[/[/B] Some things they had misconceptions themselves, mostly about the organisation and role of the SS which was presented to the general public very differently to its actual functions.

Correct me if I am wrong for you are clearly my intellectual superior but you seem to say by using the word “faithful Nazis” your Grandparents continued to hold their Nazis beliefs after the War? and they passed on misconceptions about Nazis beliefs to you.

Perhaps you can enlighten us on just what those misconceptions were?

Graham, as much as you may believe in your post #25 (an awful lot won’t) I don’t think it has any similarities to the thinking behind the allied bombing campaign.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/aug2010/stas-a23.shtml

http://www.sawfnews.com/Lifestyle/20504.aspx

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_7_18/ai_83553874/

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/t4.html

Hi Graham, there are obviously some pretty serious arguments for and against the strategies of bombing campaigns against cities, but suggesting that the residents of Dresden deserved what they got because they mainly supported Hitler isn’t a good one on several grounds, and I’m sure completey unrelated as to even the thinking behind the campaign at the time.
Forgive me if I’m wrong and that isn’t what youre saying.

I am not talking about Dresden specifically, I am not saying they deserved what happened because they supported Hitler, that it happened to Germany was inevitable due to the suffering inflicted upon others of which to an extent was a collective responsibility.
I believe the modern view that it was all down to Hitler and that the rest of the population was wholly blameless is not supported by the evidence.
I don’t think vilifying Bomber command is right as part of the war effort they saved the world.

[QUOTE=JDK;1635323]Headline:

Graham, I’m really not quite sure what to say to that most interesting essay. I think I’ll leave it alone, if you don’t mind. IMHO, it’s got nothing to do with the topic of the thread, and while you are quite at liberty to dispute my assumptions, I’ll take the same view with yours and suggest we can move on.

It’s quite simple really you said that the German populous had no control over their environment. I believe there is strong evidence available to cast serious doubt on that view in fact a large majority were aware in favour of the leadership’s aims, participated in and were fully aware of the persecution of minorities and individuals a point suported by the discovery of the SS Files I refer to.
You also made the point that the British populous in the same set of circumstances would make the same decision, I suggest this is huge leap of faith and a bit of an insult to a people well known for tolerance.
I am neither pro or anti German I simply study the information available and try to draw a conclusion.
I have studied this subject in depth and the arguments I offer have been researched.
Put simply I believe Germany was the victim of its own actions and aggression this cannot solely rest upon the shoulders of their Government.
Therefore I find it hard to swallow when apologies for Dresden or requests to cancel war memorials are requested when in fact as terrible as Dresden was it does not compare to other numerous events perpetrated against humanity in general.
My comments are just as relevant to this thread as yours.
.

Sloppy thinking? Or condecension?

We all know that you are far more eloquent, more educated and more suited to intellectual reasonong than the rest of us put together.

Speak for yourself there Kev :confused:

She does not.

Read the article, and don’t jump to conclusions.

The political history of Germany in the 1930s is a difficult one, but bear in mind that facing the same inflationary and engineered social chaos, such as Mosley attempted in a less volatile environment, Britain may well have gone the same route. In that case in Britain, or once Hitler was in power any dissent was ruthlessly crushed.

Be that as it may, by 1944 the German population had no choice in their leadership, because they were living in a one party dictatorship, and had no control over their environment.

Anyone wishing to lecture us on the choices made by Germans in the 1930s would be well advised to be on better ground than several of the preceding posts.

Not impressed.

I don’t think anyone is giving a lecture, simply offering opinions and facts.
It is a fact that Hitler was supported by the majority although I will admit they didn’t have much choise once he seized power.
I don’t think you can assume the British would have taken a similar route given similar circumstances. Hitler became popular after earlier failures by his extreme views on the Jews and other minorities; this is always the main thrust of his early political speeches. There is no evidence that British populous has ever been impressed by these types of views. The fascists in this Country were and are a political minority and more prone to being laughed at than followed fanatically.
In addition its an fact that the SS was helped to round up undesirables by the general population. I saw a fascinating program on the history channel recently where a complete set of SS files were recovered intact.
In fact rather than showing that the SS had a tight rein on the population, they were few in number for the areas covered and simply acted in nearly all cases in reaction to information received from the residents of that area.
The conclusions drawn were that the SS were to a large extent controlled by the people and not the more comfortable and accepted view to the contrary.
Even Hitler was also to some extent controlled by the populous. The extermination programs against the Mentally disabled were sparked by a personal letter from a father to Hitler requesting that he be allowed to murder his disabled son, Hitler allowed it and went on to introduce orgainised programs of extermination against mentally disabled children and adults. This was carried out and suported by doctors sworn to respect all life. This is a documented fact.
There is also no evidence to suggest that Hitler was an anti semite in his early years, there is even evidence he had a huge crush on a Jewish girl to whome he wrote anonomous letters of undying love.
He simply exploited the mood in the Country against the Jews to gain power.
There is also strong evidence from his activities in the trenches that he may have been homosexual and certainly this was the view of several of his comrades, this being the case once again he exploited feelings among the populus to further his political ambitions.
Is this anything new? do politions really believe what they tell us or do they simply spout what they think the people want to hear?