Stunning images Frank. Well done. Great website too!
Maybe I’m being dim but how can aircraft with no airframe hours left be used for flight training?
Not flight training, but ground instructional training. Aircraft are assigned maintenance serials and perform a number of training functions without actually flying. Some aircraft even taxi under their own power.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcranwell/aboutus/dcaedclpa.cfm
http://www.g0rd.com/gallery2/v/Planes/Cosford/
Where some of the retired Sea Harriers went to:
Well done, Ken. I’m glad you had a great time. Look forward to the images.
Not the point, the point is that they (the RAF) would not have had to share the Harrier force with the Royal Navy therefore splitting available resources, they did not order more GR9s afterall. As for the airframe life being on it last breath, 21 of those jet were new build in the mid 90s the rest we ‘re-lifes’ so please excuse me if I say this is tosh spouted by the MoD to justify retiring them far too early.
Regards
Joint Harrier Force works as one. Those resources such as commitment to Afghanistan are shared. The numbers of Harriers deployed to Afghanistan is very small. I don’t think that airframe life was one of the reasons on the SHAR’s demise put forward by the MoD. The main deciding factor was the inability of the airframe to take later Pegasus variants. This limited its operational deployment to such places as Afghanistan.
First my heart goes out to the families, friends and collegues of the men who died or were injured. RIP.
I have no idea if the root cause of this had anything to do with a lack of British CAS equipment but there is no doubt that there is indeed such a lack. Two peices of equipment spring immediately to mind the Jaguar and the Sea Harrier. The Jag was fit for purpose and taken out of service 5 years early to save money and so to was the Sea Harrier. Had the Sea Harrier still been in service there would be more Harriers to provide CAS and the Jag would still be working overtime but doing the job nonetheless. The army requested 97 Longbow Apache gunships, an asset that the troops on the ground regard very highly and if they had 97 then there would be more to deploy, obviously but, to save money, the government gave them 67 and it isn’t enough.
I read about soldiers saying they need a bigger slice of the defence budget but I think the answer should not be a redirection of available funds, the funds should simply be increased to ensure everything is covered. The RAF still need their ‘shiny new jets’ and the Royal Navy still need their ‘shiny new ships’ but the British Army still needs basic equipment and raw manpower and the British government will not listen. They don’t care, they are removing perfectly suitable equipment from the duty roster to pay for the shiny new stuff which is still a year away from even basic CAS capability but that doesn’t mean that the new stuff is not required.
The British government has two choices so far as I am concerned, either provide adequate funding for equipment and personel or withraw Britain from the world stage. We should be over the imperialist bug by now but if we are not we can’t send people into the firing line unless they are properly funded and properly supported. π‘ π‘
The Sea Harrier with that variant of Pegasus would have struggled. It put restrictions on where it could operate. The Jags were out of airframe hours.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1108265#post1108265
From Canopener Al
“The aircraft have little flying time left as there is no depth maintenance support and most airframes are extended by the maximum to the latest possible date of October. All the kites will go to Cosford to become training airframes that are more relevant to modern combat aircraft!!”
The Jags, if they had been deployed to Afghanistan earlier, would also have operated under constraints due to the Adour.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=273270&page=6
‘We looked very carefully at the option to go to Kandahar and it was possible. We could not have operated at the peak of the hottest days but we were only ever looked at to augment the JFH, not replace them, so that they could have a less punishing op cycle. The Harrier is an excellent CAS platform but we could have credibly relieved some of the burden.
It is certainly nice to be given credit for all the effort we have put into CAS over the last year β I donβt know where you have been Serf but providing we were physically in country, I donβt think we have ever turned down a CAS request and we have always been given positive feedback. We have trained FACs on every one of our dets, except this last one. That is a direct contribution to current ops β fact.’
Not Flankerman?!
π
Gary,
Well done! Love the Spit/Hunter formation.
Also, if I remember correctly, in the case of a couple of Warriors getting ripped up by A-10s in the first Gulf War, it was because they had strayed well into a kill box that everyone involved had been warned to stay the heck out of. Get lost in a kill box, get killed. Blue on blue happens. Sometimes it’s all ground’s fault, sometimes it’s all air’s. Sometimes it’s both. Let’s try not to pin the blame on the service or country actually putting boots in combat or planes in the air.
Logan Hartke
Incorrect. 3 RRFs Warriors were where they should have been. No blame was put on 3 RRF.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199091/cmhansrd/1991-07-24/Writtens-14.html
Lindy’s Lad wrote:
US Phantom – sure, providing that SALT II doesn’t get in the way and a good airframe is plucked from Nevada
I’ve seen this on a number of websites and forums. Those treaties such as SALT etc didn’t cover such airframes as the F-4. Not even the F-111 was covered by SALT. In relation to aircraft it only dealt with heavy strategic bombers.
Note inaccurate ref to SALT in this website
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/phantom/survivors.html
U.K. F-4s were scrapped under the CFE (Conventional Forces in Europe) Treaty. The treaty that the Russians have recently withdrawn from. The Russians used to come and visit bases such as Coningsby and inspect airframes under CFE treaty conditions. The same was done at Russian bases by CFE treaty signatory nations. The Russians destroyed huge amounts of fighters and fighter-bombers under this treaty.
Harrier ha ha ha pull the other one, its got bells on. TOO COMPLEX
In the U.K. I agree not a chance. Possibly a ground running Harrier? The private SHAR in the U.S. shouldn’t be too far away from first flight?
I thought the Jags had been disbanded, where had that come from.
That is from Boscombe Down, serial XX833 and operated by QinetiQ.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=XX833&distinct_entry=true
They did have a GR.3, serial XZ117. I last seen the GR.3 at the Waddington airshow. I don’t know if it is still flying?
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=XZ117&distinct_entry=true
Great shots, Al. Well captured. I love that camo in the good light!
Your pics are always amazing but that first one is one of the best aviation pics Ive ever seen mate. I can feel my ears ringing and I want to duck !:)
Thanks guys for the comments.
I was looking for some more fast-movers, but nothing came through that particular valley. I chose a very low position in the valley knowing that fast-movers would pass nearly direct above me. I was getting lots of comments and funny looks from other photographers that I was too low. Not everything, in my opinion, requires the mountain/hillside scenery in the background.
Apologies if I posted this on the wrong thread. Mods please move if you so wish.
it departed Mildenhall at 18.15 this evening,bound for ?
al.
Probably Afghanistan. Just a guess.
I don’t think you can call it a Canberra anymore. It is a Martin/General Dynamics RB/WB-57F.
It is still know as a Canberra as it was in the USAF
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2739