The mig 29s in serbia would have a better combat record if they were working propoely and if they wernt ganged up on like 4 f-16s on 1 mig 29.

Awww Kobra. Did you want the USAF 493rd to ring the Yugoslav 127th and tell them that we will meet you one on one at 20,000ft at a location of your choice? You show simple naivety in posting such non-sense.

Lancaster at:

52 20 10.87N 0 11 43.34W

Phantom at:

52 19 01.28N 0 13 19.42W

Canberra at:

52 20 53.81N 0 07 13.31W

Shackleton at:

50 26 09.26N 5 00 37.39W

this is interesting. and i think Russia possission of oil/gas and it selling of weopons and nuke technlogies to China and Islamic world from Algeria to Malaysia is bigger threat to West than the number of its nuclear warhead.

Hmmm. Then how come 8 USAF F-15s intercepted them off US airspace? They then transited into Canadian controlled airspace where they were intercepted by CF-18s.

“Bombing exercises were held using Tu-22 Blinders.”

As if the report wasn’t bad enough. LOL did they get the Blinders out of the scrap yard. Poor journalism at its worst!

You do realise that Russia announces out of area ops with strategic bombers to the west? They put a time window on them as part of the on-going safeguards. They do the same time window with all their ballistic missile launches.

The same way U.S. kept saying they destroyed 70% of Serbias Tanks, Airdefences, and itwas latter proven they only destroyed 13 Tanks and destroyed 10% of Serbs airdefences.

Clear War,

I take it that you don’t actually read Air Forces Monthly? You do know who Alan Warnes is? Alan Warnes is the Editor of AFM. He has recently come back from Serbia and Montenegro. A recent article has appeared in AFM. During his visit he interviewed base commanders and talked to pilots. Strange that not one of them mentioned these air raids that were conducted in their name? You can contact Alan Warnes at AFM’S e-mail address.

To remind everyone of the tales of these raids:

Claim of Tuzla air raid:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/tuzlaattack01.htm

Claim of Rinas air raid:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/rinasattack01.htm

Clear War, They make excellent reading don’t they? You don’t honestly believe them do you? If you do then your not much of a tactician. Good job you weren’t in charge of the Yugoslav Air Force? The person or group who invented the stories obviously did not think through what the consequences of such raids would be?

Why didn’t the Yugoslav raids take place. Why would the Yugoslav High Command not strike at these two bases?

Firstly Clear War Tuzla base housed a Russian Colonel with his SFOR liaison staff. Clear War you did realise that the Russians were part of SFOR now didn’t you? The last thing that the Yugoslavs would have wanted to do was to be killing Russians now isn’t it? Something that the people who created the fantasy story did not think through. The people who invented the air raid even claimed that a Yugoslav Orao pilot was killed! Strange that no Yugoslav pilot or unit carries a citation or recognizes his death?

Why didn’t the Yugoslavs conduct an air raid on Rinas?

Task Force ALBA was the name given to the operation by the Swiss Defence Department. The force consisted of 50 personnel made up of military pilots, ground personnel and soldiers. Three AS 532 Cougars, serials T-315, T-322 and T-312 , were deployed to Rinas and by the 9th of April they were fully operational. The Swiss also used a hired Spanish Air Force CASA CN 235 for re-supply flights between Switzerland and Albania. The Swiss Defence Minister, Federal Councillor Adolf Ogi, Chief of the General Staff, Ulrich Scherrer and Lieutenant General Fernaud Carrel visited Rinas during the summer and expressed their satisfaction with the work carried out by the Swiss Task Force ALBA.

Isn’t it strange that not one member of this humanitarian mission, which was stationed at Rinas before Task Force Hawk arrived, reported to their chiefs that Rinas or the local area had come under air attack from the Serbs? Just who do you think was co-coordinating the Swiss helicopters? Alonside the Swiss was also a contingent of Austrian Air Force Bell 212/4s. Both nations are non-aligned. Are they all part of the cover-up? Not to mention all the humanitarian agencies based at Rinas plus news agencies and nobody witnessed an air-raid being carried out? Consider all the UN humanitarian aid flight being conducted into Albania. Russian transports were involed in this operation. Ask yourself why the Yugoslavs would even consider such raids with such high consequences of hitting Russians, civilians or humanitarian organisations.

Obvioulsy to your mindset Clear War these raids actually took place. If they did then how come the Russians were strangely silent? Over to you Clear War. You obviously have all the answers. Did the Russian commander get a slice of the 10 billion?

This is the flaw that you Americans have, first U.S. Gov would tell media not to air thier cries for thier relatives, in an open society U.S. media is cencoered beyond beliefe, jews just beause in this case with the jews doesn’t mean it would happen in U.S. For example F-117 pilot would was shot down in Kosavo, U.S. claims he was rescued but he was actually killed, thats why you never saw him being interviewd on T.V.

Clear War,
It is clear that you live in a complete fantasy world. Vega 31 was not shot down in Kosovo. Vega 31 has been named he came out and revealed his identitiy during Jan 2006. Where have you been? The airforcetimes is subscription. A subscriber posted the following onto rec.aviation.military. The poster edited out his name for personal reasons. What you want is a subscriber to inform you of his name. Phantom a regular poster on here should be able to tell you? Clear War you may also not know that Vega 31 gave an interview back in 1999 (see second link)

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-AIRPAPER-airpaper02272006.php

After long silence, pilot shot down in Serbia recounts dramatic rescue
Nearly seven years ago, an Air Force F-117 Nighthawk, call sign Vega 31, was shot down over Serbia. Though enemy forces tried ferociously to capture the pilot, a rescue task force found the pilot first and brought him home. (For subscribers only)

Air Force Times February 27, 2006

After long silence, pilot shot down in Serbia recounts dramatic rescue

By Darrel Whitcomb

Nearly seven years ago, an Air Force F-117 Nighthawk, call sign Vega
31, was shot down over Serbia. Though enemy forces tried ferociously to
capture the pilot, a rescue task force found the pilot first and
brought him home. Little has been released publicly about the incident and the harrowing operation. Since the shootdown, the pilot has remained behind the scenes and shared details only with those who had a “need to know.”

Only now has he agreed to tell his story. Vega 31 – Lt. Col. Vega 31
– held an audience in thrall Jan. 25 at the National Museum of the
United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio.

At the museum, it was standing room only as Vega 31, now on staff at
Headquarters Air Combat Command, recounted the incident.

The weather was thick over Serbia that night in March 1999. Only the
F-117s and B-2 Spirits were sent in against the most critical targets.
Vega 31 delivered his bombs near Belgrade. Both hit their targets.
Minutes later, he saw Serbian missiles streaking toward his aircraft.
Their explosions mortally damaged the Nighthawk and it violently
tumbled out of control.

As the negative G-forces built up, Vega 31 had to fight to reach the
ejection handles. Luckily, he did, and he rocketed into the cold night
air.

Temporal distortion seemed to expand the next few moments as he fell
earthbound. Then he separated from the seat and his parachute opened.
As he descended only 20 miles from Belgrade, he resolved that the enemy
had gotten his jet, but that was all they would get. He pictured
himself casually talking to the Serb who had shot him down. “Really
nice shot,” he would acknowledge, “but you are not going to get
me!”

Vega 31 knew at that very moment rescue forces were gearing up. It
focused his thinking because he knew his actions would be critical to
their success. It was a “powerful motivation,” he said.

For the next 3½ hours, Vega 31 recounted for the audience the ebb and
flow of events as he waited in that muddy Serbian field. He shared some
of his actions, being careful to avoid any revelation of still-classified information.

He talked about hearing and seeing Serbian troops and civilians combing
the fields looking for him. One dog came close enough for Vega 31 to
get an unforgettable look at it. “I could pick that dog out of a lineup today,” he said.

Mostly, he spoke of his rescuers. He has contacted many of those who
played a role in his recovery. He mentioned as many as he could and
showed photos and video.

He talked about the KC-135 crew who first reported his shoot-down and
about the support personnel from so many units who worked tirelessly.
He mentioned the F-16 pilots who maintained top cover so the rescue
armada of helicopters could come in.

There was the MC-130 crew of Ogre 01 who were seemingly everywhere in
the operation. And he spoke most endearingly of the A-10 pilots,
helicopter crews and pararescuemen involved. To honor them all, he said
he knew that “no matter what the risk, everything possible would be
done to get me out.”

When those in the audience clamored to ask questions, Vega 31 had to
weigh his answers carefully. They asked how his wife was notified. He
explained that, at the time, she was serving in the Air Force at
Holloman Air Force Base, N.M. When the headquarters there received the
message of the shootdown, the wing commander had to make sure he was
able to talk to her before word spread through the unit.

Perhaps the most touching moment was Vega 31’s description of
returning to his base at Aviano, Italy. His co-workers turned out to
welcome him home, including his crew chief, Airman 1st Class Bart
Ramsey, intelligence specialist Airman 1st Class Christine Yeafoli and
targeteer Airman 1st Class Katrina Kauderer. He hugged them all.

To Kauderer, he presented an American flag, which he had taken on the
flight for her.

To the audience, he said, “Thank you for being the kind of nation
that would do this.”

The writer spent 30 years in the Air Force, both active and reserve. He
is a veteran of two wars and the author of “The Rescue of Bat 21.”

Vega 31’s 1999 interview:

http://www.dcmilitary.com/airforce/capitalflyer/archives/apr9/cf_a4999.html

Rescued Stealth pilot details evasion, inspiration
By 1st Lt. Matthew Borg
31st Air Expeditionary Wing Public Affairs

AVIANO AIR BASE, Italy (AFPN) — During his more than six hours behind enemy lines, the U.S. F-117 pilot who ejected during a night mission over Yugoslavia March 27, waited for his rescuers with a cloth American flag under his flight suit and against his body.

Given to him by an airman as he strapped in for his mission, he secured the flag before he took off, and that’s where it remained until his return, providing him a calming reassurance throughout.

“A moment like this is a prayer in object form,” said the pilot, whose identity is being protected for operational security reasons. “Her giving that flag to me was saying, ‘I’m giving this to you to give back to me when you get home.’

“For me it was representative of all the people who I knew were praying,” said the pilot. “It was a piece of everyone and very comforting. It helped me not let go of hope. Hope gives you strength … it gives you endurance.”

In numerous debriefings over the past week, the pilot spoke of this endurance along with his determination to survive and evade, but credits his return home to the search and rescue team that plucked him from deep within Serbian territory.

Punctuated by repeated statements of gratitude to his rescuers, the stealth fighter pilot detailed his emergency ejection, enemy evasion and eventual rescue.

“I knew I was fairly deep into Serbian territory,” said the Air Force pilot. “I had guessed my position was within 20 miles of Belgrade — not a happy thought, considering the risk involved in a combat search and rescue that deep into Serbian territory.”

The pilot said he purposely wasn’t optimistic about a timely extraction, and was prepared for potential capture.

“I knew everybody was doing everything they could, but I also knew what was involved in trying to recover me,” said the pilot. “Even though that team is highly trained and extremely skilled, I knew the risks and complexity, as well as the danger. I still can’t believe that I got on board that (rescue vehicle) with our guys.”

The cause of the crash is still under investigation, but the pilot did provide officials with a detailed account of his ejection from the aircraft.

While he doesn’t know exactly what the negative G-forces were prior to his ejection, he described them as “enormous,” potentially as high as five times the force of gravity.

“I remember having to fight to get my hands to go down toward the (ejection seat) handgrips,” he explained. “I always strap in very tightly, but because of the intense G-forces, I was hanging in the straps and had to stretch to reach the handles.”

While he recalls the intense strain involved in getting his fingertips to the ejection handles, he said he doesn’t remember making the conscious decision to eject from the aircraft.

“‘Am I going to know when it’s time to get out?’ is the question on every fighter pilot’s mind,” he said. “The one fragment of this whole event I can’t remember is pulling the handles. God took my hands and pulled.”

Uninjured except for a few minor abrasions, the Nighthawk pilot described the ejection as “violent.” Although slightly disoriented after the high-airspeed ejection, he was very aware he had just bailed out deep within Serbian territory.

“It didn’t panic me,” he said. “I just got very busy doing what I needed to do.”

After his parachute had deployed, he said he immediately started working the rescue.

“I remember thinking, ‘Why wait until I hit the ground? Let’s go for it now,'” he explained.

The pilot attributes a great deal of his success behind enemy lines to his Air Force SERE training, an intensive program that includes survival, evasion, resistance and escape instruction.

“There was not a whole lot of this that I actually had to ponder,” he said. “The SERE training and periodic life support refresher training provide a very strong foundation of survival techniques. Having experienced (survival and evasion) at some level, even though it was in the training environment, provided some level of familiarity.”

Because of the potential that the Serbs were also monitoring various radio frequencies, the pilot had to minimize his radio transmissions and calls for help.

After making radio contact with NATO forces, he used the remaining minutes of his descent to survey the land — looking for landmarks, areas of cover and a landing site.

Parachuting into a freshly plowed field approximately 50 yards from a road and rail track intersection, he immediately began burying the life raft and other survival equipment automatically deployed during the ejection sequence.

“There was some activity at that intersection,” he said. “Thank God no one actually saw me come down.” While he couldn’t absolutely confirm that the cars, trucks and people he heard were looking for him, he did hear search dogs. At one point, a dog came within 30 feet of where he was huddled.

The pilot spent the next six hours hunkered down in this “hold-up site” in a shallow culvert 200 yards away from his landing site. It was during this time that many questions began racing through his head.

“A very important part of the whole combat search and rescue operation is to minimize transmission on the radio,” he said. “However, for the downed guy, it’s very unsettling to not know what’s going on. You’re thinking, ‘Do they know I’m here? Do they know my location? Where are the assets and who is involved? What’s the plan? Are they going to try to do this tonight?’ It’s the unknowns that are unsettling.”

But amid this road race of thoughts, the Air Force officer had something tangible to get him through six hours of solitude amidst barking search dogs, passing headlights and pursuit trucks roaring up and down the nearby road — the American flag.

And while the downed pilot waited, so did the American people, including those forces deployed to Aviano Air Base, Italy.

“When we heard he was down,” said the airman who had given him the flag, “it was as if we had lost a member of our family. These guys aren’t just pilots to us. We know their families and they know ours.”

The pilot endured for more than a quarter of a day until the special operations unit arrived. With minimal communication but careful and discreet authentication of his identity, the search and rescue team was able to ingress to the pilot’s hold-up location. Search and rescue specialists with emergency medical capabilities and whose mission is to recover combat air crews in austere environments quickly extracted the pilot and whisked him toward friendly ground.

Among the first to greet the rescued pilot at Aviano was the airman. Amid the hugs, back slapping and hand shaking, the F-117 pilot spotted her in the crowd and reached into his flight suit to reveal the flag he had promised to return to her.

“People have asked me if I was thinking about the flag I had given him,” the airman said. “I wasn’t thinking about it at all. I just wanted him back.”

Now, just days after his rescue, the downed pilot is anxious to get right back in the cockpit.

“The leadership said they wanted to give me a breather and that it wasn’t my choice,” said the pilot. “All I asked was that I be able to stay here for as long as possible before heading back. I think all of us need to have time together to visit with our emotions.”

Allied Force air operations continue to launch here day and night, with approximately 140 warplanes operating out of the Northeastern Italy air base. Nearly 400 NATO aircraft in the region have been ordered by Gen. Wesley Clark, supreme allied commander Europe, to focus more intensely on Yugoslav forces.

While the rescued pilot will be miles away from the combat for the foreseeable future, he did want the American public to know how hard those still supporting the operations are working.

“The American people can be very proud of the devotion and hustle everyone is exhibiting over here,” said the pilot. “Keep them in your prayers and support them.” (Courtesy of U.S. Air Forces in Europe News Service)”

Clear War,

Lt. Col. Stephan J. Laushine who led both rescue missions into Serbia to
rescue the pilots of the two aircraft shot down during Operation Allied
Force (F-117A, serial 82-806 and F-16CG, serial 88-0550) revealed during a
TV interview that all three choppers (MH-53 and MH-60s) were hit by small
arms fire during the mission. Two took hits to the rotors and another took a
hit in the aft cabin section. The MH-60G ‘Pave Hawk’ that picked up the F-16
pilot sustained significant damage as revealed by the following:

Details of the awards and the overall team that rescued the F-16 and F-117 pilots from inside Serbia:

http://www.f-117a.com/Vega31-4.html

Clear War, all this is obviously a figment to your mindset.

The Explanation is simple, several NATO helicopter claimed as accidents losses, a Harrier claimed as an accident loss. 😀

In fact the more I look at your cartoon bullet holes the more I am inclined to see a simple popped seam. It looks like a venting or drainage plug to the left of the ‘holes’. Check the underside to the external tanks with the seams. I expect those seams are covered to give a smooth finish. Look at the spacing of the holes. That is definately not a spacing that could come from a weapon against a moving target.

See a Harrier GR.7 tank in detail on this link:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/0/0/1/0848100.jpg

Flogger, ZD347 was one of the Harriers that took part in Allied Force. Pictured above in 2005 by an aviation photographer/enthusiast.

This one from the camo is easily identified as an RAF Tornado external. Flogger you are aware that crews do jettison their externals. Now is this proof in your mind that an RAF Tornado was lost? Stop showing your naivety and simply hiding behind your all encompassing claim of ‘cover-up’.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/fueltank02.htm