Hello TEEJ

Man you know perfectly the Western Media is not entirely free, no media any where in the world is entirely free, but going back to the main topic where are the pictures of the 42 Iraqi aircraft shot down in GWI? come on TEEJ i am just showing you that basicly without pictures is hard to verify kills, without them well any claim has the same validity

On the picture a MiG-29 Fulcrum on the gun sight of a MiG-21 during training, check that kind of pictures are lacking in almost all the accounts you can read either from the west of the east, the russians for example claimed that the MiG-21 shot down plenty of aircraft in fact that it had a favourable kill ratio against the F-4 in Vietnam

No sorry Flogger, simply doesn’t wash. You believe that manned aircraft are missing from the NATO inventory of multi-nations. These aircraft would still have to be missing to this day. You still haven’t told me on your theories of how they are STILL being covered up? Where are the corresponding accidents to cover up aircraft ‘A’ going missing from the inventory?

Do you honestly think that every air combat produces gun-kill type camera footage like you presented? Add up how many of those GW1 kills were BVR or at night? The wreckage of most of those Iraqi aicraft would have fallen on Iraqi soil under Iraqi control. Stop reading Tom Clancy – what did you expect sat pictures of the remains of those Iraqi aircraft wrecks showing details?

The AWACs overall pictures of those engagements would exist on radar tapes. Obviously that wouldn’t be good enough for you? You would be able to see from the time of release of the missile to the point where the target broke up and went missing from the radar picture. Those data tapes would be classified accordingly. What else do you want to see? Do you require the non-co-operative target recognition (NCTR) tapes of the GW1 engagements?

Back to you to explain how the cover-up of all those ’38’ manned aircraft are STILL being covered up to this day?

Kursed wrote:

“Can anyone here tell me what is that thing towards the left of the aircraft that I’ve just encircled in red. (IFR??)”

Not IFR. That will be an air-data probe. Check out these pics and you’ll see images of those type of probes:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/flankers_pages/cockpits.htm

Isnt the first pic of the famous iraqi farmer who shot down an apache with his rifle and was filmed..As it turned out the aircraft was just laded as it developed technical faults..

No. The crew of that Apache admitted they took hits in combat. Rounds entered the cockpit and creased the pilots foot.

The crew of that Apache, Chief Warrant Officers Ronald Young and David Williams, gave TV interviews after the conflict. The helo was hit by Iraqi fire and disabled forcing the crew to make an emergency landing. The Farmer was later interviewed and stated that he didn’t shoot anything. He revealed that it was Ba’ath party officials who thrust a rifle in his hands for propaganda purposes.

Later on in the conflict the Iraqis released previously unseen footage of 99-5135 claiming that it was yet another Apache downed and captured. The give away was that the M261 rocket launcher was shown to have EXACTLY the same number of rockets spent as in the original footage of 99-5135. Bit of a giveaway!

CW2 Williams is on the record:

“We were conducting deep attacks against the Medina Division,” Dave, 30, recalled. “Our first fight was against the Republican Guard. They used cell phones to contact each other and pinpoint our location. Up at the target area they turned lights on and off and then…,” Dave pauses and shuts his eyes for a moment.

“I sit in the back and my gunner sits in front of me. I had lost the number one engine, the hydraulics, something was on fire,” he said. “I was only about 30 to 50 feet off the ground. The snakes (trails left by tracer bullets) were all around.” Dave held his hands up with his fingers intertwined to describe the wall of anti-aircraft artillery fire in front of them. Bullets came into the cabin and one cut across his boot and foot.”

The helo was later destroyed in a Coalition airstrike:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0507/p04s01-woiq.html

“…Aided in part by television news images that showed the downed Longbow apparently intact, recovery officials were able to pinpoint the helicopter’s location. An order was given to destroy it.

“We directed an aircraft to the site, but when it got there, there were too many clouds,” says US Army Lt. Col. Eric Nelson, air-operations officer for V Corps. “The pilot could see the helicopter [on the ground between the clouds], but he couldn’t get a good lock on it to shoot it.”

So recovery officials changed plans. They decided instead to use long-range artillery fire. But the crash site was close to US troops, and it took some time to clear the artillery barrage with commanders in the area.

By then, however, the Iraqis had loaded the helicopter onto a transport truck. For two days, US officials lost track of the Longbow.

At this point of the story, military officials choose their words very carefully. “Someone saw it and reported it,” is all they will say. But it is no secret that a significant number of Special Forces troops were working behind enemy lines.

The Iraqis had transported the helicopter to a gully near what then was the Saddam International Airport. They covered it with camouflage tenting.

“Once we located it, we put an Air Force jet on it, and this time he destroyed it,” says Colonel Nelson, who also answers to the call sign “Evil-6.” “You want it blown apart. We didn’t want to disable it. We wanted to totally destroy it so its parts couldn’t be exploited.”

The pilot dropped a 1,000-pound bomb.

About a week later, the 3rd Infantry Division pushed through the area, capturing the airport. A special detail was sent to recover whatever was left of the Apache.

Today, it is barely recognizable as a helicopter – a twisted hulk of green and black metal about the size of a small dump truck. The blades are doubled over and shattered. The only recognizable piece of equipment is the protective Kevlar shield that supports the pilot’s seat. The seat itself is gone.

The wreckage is awaiting transport to American salvage specialists in Kuwait. “We don’t leave our combat junk out on the battlefield,” Nelson says. “The Iraqis won’t have to clean up after us.”

So you must believe then that ‘NATO’ are even covering up accidents? Explain to me how they haven’t announced the loss of those ’38’ as accidents? You are already on the record as saying that “Serbia officially claimed another 38 aircraft many of which NATO says were lost in accidents” Can you provide me with a list of all those ‘many’ that NATO says were lost in accidents?

So what about the rest? How are they being explained away as missing from the inventory? Explain to me how aircraft ‘A’ missing in an ‘accident’ from Allied Force is still unaccounted for to this day? You clearly do not understand either the serial systems / construction numbers of western aircraft. Flogger you obviously believe that NATO lost many aircraft in combat during Allied Force. How are the missing aircraft from 1999 being explained away? You clearly don’t understand that for your theory to work you need an accident to cover up the combat loss. Explain how the ‘missing’ are still being covered up?

You are on the record as saying that an F-15 was lost over the Balkans. You believe this actually took place. Please explain how the loss of this aircraft is still being covered up to this day? Where is the NATO acknowledged ‘accident’ to cover up its loss?

From its T tail fin, thought it’s a F-104, but insignia and wings look wrong.

http://www.chinanews.com.cn/news/2006/2006-04-05/8/712466.shtml
http://news.sina.com.hk/cgi-bin/news/show_news.cgi?ct=headlines&type=headlines&date=2006-04-05&id=1878912

More about the MiG-29 “64 Blue” in Hong Kong, reportedly on its way from Ukraine to USA.

Don Chan,
Here is an Iraqi wreck example of an L-29

MiGs. Chinese and North Korean.

The fourth image is an L-29 Delfin. Czech trainer.

I wether the crew that was defecting prefered $US or Euros…
US aircraft dont just dissapear on patrol, and its not hard finding a black impact crater on the desert floor. Id be looking at Syrian or Iranian airbases, or possibly a Chinese or Russian freighter with something that looks suspiciously like a helipad making a fast exit out of the area.

Guess we will all find out when one of the aformentioned countries produces a very ‘longbow’ looking helicopter within 3-5 years.

Some of you guys live in a strange fantasy world. The wreckage and the bodies of the aircrew have been recovered.