edited: double post. See below

…back on topic.

Lets play out this scenario…..if, like the late 60’s, Russia withdraws all design and support agreements..where would that leave China now? Also Admiral, you are being silly comparing planes that are currently using russian engines and other technology and design input. Your most numerous jets in your airforce are 1950’s and 1960’s Soviet designs, as are your transports. How do you know the local products will live up to expectations yet. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. You cannot see into the future. History is full of examples of trumpeted projects that ultimately failed. What engines do your latest destroyers use? Who is helping you design your new SSN and SSBN? What design was your space orbiter based on? On what design is the main armament of your Z-99 based on? etc…etc…etc..your most recent tracked IFV? Helicopters? Transport planes? etc…etc…etc.

By all means feel proud of China, but why knock a country that has helped design or has designed over 90% of your armed forces equipment? I don’t understand your need to bash Russia to build yourself up.

They have found Celtic mummies in China dating back over about 2000 years or so…does that mean Ireland/Wales/Scotland/Britanny can lay claim to a section of China? :diablo:

Does anyone have any pics of the Umkhonto missile/ installation in Finnish Navy service?

What a marvellously esoteric conversation…. 🙂 SOC, how do you do it? 😉

so they will have even less to do with Australian submarines in the future, most likely the collins replacement with include even more idigionous designs possibly in partnership with the Americans.

The US has not designed an SSK in decades, and have no ready SSK design facilities. See the Taiwan submarine procurement for details. Basically, America wanted to provide SSK’s to Taiwan. They would have had to licence produce a foreign design in a shipyard that had no recent SSk experience. Naturally the project foundered.

It really does not pay for Australia to develope a wholly indigenous design considering the limited numbers they can afford. It is no surprise that the Germans bought out Kockums. I forsee a few major players only in this market. Australia , like many other nations , will continue to licence produce designs that are then modified for local requirements/ job creation / cost of maintenance issues.

I agree. No fair and free country or person would be against the institution of an International War Crimes Tribunal. Probably only death merchants and killers like Mugabe and North Korea or countries with innocent blood on their hands and something to fear…. so we should make a list of these tyrannical despots and countries that are scared of this type of justice and punish them… :diablo:

Hahahaha. Something like that 25deg :diablo: It is what is getting him banned.