Still sorting out the chaos after our house move, but have found time this evening to have another look at the Etrich/Rumpler Taube and have refined the list of survivors as follows:

A108/14’/A118/13 Deutsches Technikmuseum, Berlin
???? Vienna Technical Museum (Technisches Museum)
???? Luftwaffenmuseum, Berlin
???? Flugmuseum Aviaticum, Wiener Neustadt
???? Deutsches Museum, Munich
???? Norsk Teknisk Museum, on display at Forsvarets Flysamling, Gardermoen
???? Narodowe Muzeum Lotnictw (Polish Aviation Museum), Krakow (unrestored)

Improvements please!

Furthermore should the 1914 AEG Wagner Eule at Krakow also be counted as a WW1 type?

Yesterday I slipped away for a couple of hours to South Lambeth to examine my recollection that the BE2c & Camel appear pretty unmessed with – they certainly look that way to my inexpert eyes. What I don’t know is if they escaped the 1941 bombing relatively unscathed – I am sure that many people on this forum must know whether we can class this pair as having a “high degree of originality” or not. Answers please?

Was at the Yanks Air Museum at Chino yesterday and there were indeed two Jennys, one complete and one hanging above that one, uncovered. Quite a display. Also, in another hangar, was a beautifully restored and uncovered Standard J-1 fuselage, and an unrestored Thomas-Morse, bare bones, probably an S-4C.

Thanks Baldeagle – very useful – do we know the s/ns? Also are we saying that the Yanks Air Museum has just the two Jennys not three?

Apologies for the lack of progress over the past couple of days – am up ‘in the smoke’ and have only an expensive hotel email link. But have taken some fresh photos of a couple of ‘planes on our list today. Although I am rather inebriated as a result of an excellent trip on the “Blue Pullman” train tonight – as a part of tomorrow’s conference..

Latest “Other Nations” List

the second edition of Bob Ogden’s Asia listings refers to two Farmans in Japan –

National Science Museum, Tokyo exhibits

Farman MF -11 serial 266 – ex Tsingtao raid/Tohuko University/Yasukuni Shrine

Kotsu Transportation Museum, Tokyo exhibits

Farman HF7 (no serial listed) – first aircraft to fly in Japan

However, both Ray Rimell and Leslie Hunt (in the 4th edition of Veteran and Vintage Aircraft) make reference to the stored Shorthorn at JASDF Hamamatsu City. This was apparently taken to the USA post WW2 for evaluation and was returned to the care of the JASDF in the early 1950s

Thanks for your excellent work Jeepman I’m convinced! Have updated entry and added in the extra Longhorn.

Thanks to everyone’s sterling efforts we have been able to move the “other nations” list forward, as attached to the end of this post. As you will see that we have still yet to verify the authenticity of a few planes, particularly Jennys – given the incompleteness of the listings for some of these there may be a bit of double counting, that we will need to sort out. As every any help gratefully received!

AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Aviatik Berg D.I

101.37 Vienna Technical Museum (high degree of originality)
101.40 Museum of Flight, Seattle

Aviatik C.I

C.227/16 Brussels Aviation Museum (incomplete)

Aviatik C.III

???? Narodowe Muzeum Lotnictw (Polish Aviation Museum), Krakow (incomplete)

Etrich Taube/Rumpler Taube

‘A108/14’/A118/13 Deutsches Technikmuseum, Berlin
???? Vienna Technical Museum (Technisches Museum)
???? Luftwaffenmuseum, Berlin
???? Flugmuseum Aviaticum, Wiener Neustadt (is this genuine?)
???? Deutsches Museum, Munich (is this genuine?)
???? Norsk Teknisk Museum, on display at Forsvarets Flysamling, Gardermoen

Knoller C.II

119.15 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Hansa-Brandenburg D1

28.68 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague (fuselage only)
10.21 Vojenske Muzeum (Czech Aviation Museum), Kbely (post war Aero Ae-10 – how genuine is this example?)

Hansa Brandenburg B.I

???? Budapest Aviation Museum

Hansa Brandenburg W.33

4.D.2 Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Finnish Air Museum), Vantaa (post war Finnish built IVL A.22, licence built to modified design)

Lloyd Prototype

40.01 Budapest Transport Museum

Lohner L-1

L-127 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

Phönix D.III

947 Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

ITALIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Ansaldo A 1 “Balilla”

MM16553 Museo del Risorgimento e del comune di Bergamo (under restoration by GAVS in Turin)

Ansaldo SVA-5

11721 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
11777 Museo Gianni Caproni, Trento
????? ?, Peru (rebuilt (poorly) following crash – how genuine is this?)

Ansaldo SVA-9

13148 Aeritalia

Ansaldo SVA-10

12736 Il Vittoriale degli Italiani, Gardone Riveria
13164 Museo Nacional de Aeronáutica, Argentina (existence to be confirmed)

Caproni Ca.3

1 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

Caproni Ca.20

23174 Museum of Flight, Seattle (high degree of originality)

Caproni Ca.36

2378 Museo Aeronautica Caproni di Taliedo, on loan to NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Macchi M.7

945 Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

MEXICAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

TNCA Type H

???? Mexican Air Force Collection

RUSSIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Anatra Anasalj

010.091 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Grigorovich M-5

???? Turkish Air Force Museum, Izmar

Grigorowicz M-15

???? Narodowe Muzeum Lotnictw (Polish Aviation Museum), Krakow

SWEDISH DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Thulin typ D

F1 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski (partial replica based around original fuselage)

Thulin typ G

G 11-15 Under restoration at Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

Thulin typ N

?? Svenska Tekniska Museet, Stockholm

US DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Curtiss JN-4D Jenny

JN-4C
C227 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
C308 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas
C496 Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum, St. Louis
C1122 Skeeter Carlson, Spokane, Washington State (high degree of originality)
1898 ????
4048 Anthony Morozowsky, Zanesville, Ohio (serial number indicates a JN-4D?)
10875 John Shue, York, Pennsylvania
39158 National Air Museum?
56618 ???? [CHECK IF GENUINE]
???? Reynolds-Alberta Museum, [CHECK IF GENUINE]
???? Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, New York State (barn find restoration)

JN-4D
D-51 Yanks Air Museum, Chino, California (displayed with canvas stripped) – have two others?
278 Sold to??
396 San Diego Aerospace Museum
400??? James Smith, Fortine, Montana
450 Kenneth Hyde, on loan to Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia
490 Sold to?? [CHECK IF GENUINE]
A995 US Museum of Naval Aviation, Pensacola, Florida
A996 Museum of Flying, Santa Monica, California
1321 Franklin Root, Staunton, Virginia
1350 Warp Pioneer Villiage Museum, Minden, Nebraska
1956 EAA AirVenture Museum, Oshkosh, Wisconsin
2421 Chicago Museum of Science & Industry (question mark whether this is genuine or a replica)
2525 owner unknown, Indiana
2780 US Museum of Army Aviation, Ozark, Alabama
2805 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio
2844 ????
3233 ????
3229 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas [CHECK IF GENUINE – DUPLICATE?]
3712 Flying Heritage Collection, Arlington, Washington State
3973 John Johnson, Edmonton, Alberta
4983 NASM, Washington Dulles
5002 Hill Aerospace Museum, Utah (rebuilt)
5086 Glenn H Curtiss Museum, Hammondsport, New York (under restoration)
5360 Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida (very original but badly damaged)
5361 Kenneth Hyde, Warrenton, Virginia
6062 Paul Dougherty, Bethel, Pennsylvania (under restoration at Golden Age Air Museum?)
8047 Paul Dougherty, Bethel, Pennsylvania (under restoration at Golden Age Air Museum?)
33779 Kenneth Hyde, Warrenton, Virginia
34091 Yanks Air Museum, Chino, California?
34094 Owls Head Transportation Museum, Maine
???? Museum of Flight, Seattle (little original material remaining)
???? US Army Center for Military History, on loan to College Park Aviation Museum, College Park, Maryland (barn find restoration)
???? Frontier Army Museum, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas

JN-4H
3919 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (composite aircraft)
8644 Frank Schelling, Schellville, California

JN-4HG
A4160 National Museum of the US Marine Corps, Quantico, Virginia

Yet to classify:
???? ex-Gene Frank (2 No. kits of parts)
???? Aero Vintage Ltd, currently at AJD Engineering, Sudbury
???? Hiller Aviation Museum, San Carlos, California
???? Museum of Flying, Santa Monica, California
???? Fairbanks International Airport, Alaska
???? Denver International Airport [CHECK IF GENUINE]

Curtiss NC-4

A2294 NASM, on loan to US Museum of Naval Aviation. Pensacola, Florida

Curtiss N-9H

???? NASM, Washington Dulles

LWF Model F Tractor

4 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Packard Lepere Lusac

42133 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio

Standard J1

581 Owls Head Transportation Museum, Maine
1000 James Hammond, Yellow Springs, Ohio
1141 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio
1582 Kermit Weeks, Polk City Florida (composite of two aircraft)
1598 ????
2969 Michael Cilurso, Schnecksville, Pennsylvania (assembled from original components – period kit)
4598 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas
N6948 EAA AirVenture Museum, Oshkosh, Wisconsin
‘N62505’ Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum, St. Louis
???? NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio (incomplete)
???? Henry Ford Museum, on loan to Glenn H Curtiss Museum, Hammondsport, New York
???? Golden Age Air Museum Bethel, Pennsylvania (off site under restoration)

Lincoln Standard HS
N1375 NASM, Washington Dulles

Standard E1

49128 Kermit Weeks, Polk City Florida
???? Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia

Thomas-Morse S4 Scout

S4B
4328 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

S4C
38898 Skeeter Carlson, Spokane, Washington State
38923 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas
38944 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio
???? Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, New York State
???? Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas (fuselage & engine only?)

Another one that we have missed off the Austro-Hungarian list:

Hansa Brandenburg W.33

4.D.2 Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Finnish Air Museum), Vantaa (post war Finnish built IVL A.22, licence built to modified design)

As a relief from attempting to identify Jennys and verify their authenticity (thanks for all the help and leads lads – keep them coming!). I have spent a lot of time trying to verify the authenticity of the JASDF MF11 on teh French list. I am beginning to believe that we should wipe this one off, I had no luck emailing them about it and I can no find no trace of it at the following museums that display aircraft:

Kanoya Airbase Museum
Hamamatsu Airbase Museum
Sasebo JMSDF Museum
Kakamigahara Aerospace Museum
Nagoya Airport Aerospace Museum
Yasukuni Jinja Yushukan
Tachiarai Peace Memorial Museum
Chiran Peace Museum

Unless anyone can positively identify this airframe as still extant I believe that we should strike it off the list. Can anyone find this plane?

Updated French List

It has been a while since I last posted the French list. In which time we have made considerable progress with it (thanks everyone). This is where we now are (and hopefully close to the finishing line with this one):

FRENCH DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Blériot XI

c/n1? Musée des arts et métiers, Paris
c/n 14 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
c/n 56 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (rebuilt from partial fuselage remains)
c/n 82 Mikael Carlson, Löberöd, Sweden (Thulin built – “95% original”)
c/n 153 On loan to Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, New York State
c/n 164 RAFM Hendon
c/n 246 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
c/n 686 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
L611 Powerhouse Museum, Sydney
n/a NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio (privately built in period from factory drawings)
n/a Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (privately built in period from factory drawings, fuselage only?)
n/a Svenska Tekniska Museet (modified Nyrop built version)
???? NASM, Smithsonian, Washington D.C
???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (American Aeroplane Supply House built)
???? Brussels Aviation Museum (constructed around original pair of wings only)
???? US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, Alabama
???? Museo del Aire, Madrid (Vilanova built)
???? Verkehrshaus, Lucerne
???? Deutsches Museum, Munich (is this genuine?)
???? San Diego Aerospace Museum
???? New England Air Museum, Windsor Locks, Connecticut
???? Mikael Carlson, Löberöd, Sweden (Thulin built)

Breguet III

B1 Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping (rebuilt from crash wreck)

Breguet XIV A2

2016 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
3C30 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski

Caudron G III

324 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
640 Museu Aeroespacial (Brazilian Air Force Museum) Rio de Janeiro
2531 Brussels Air Museum
3066 RAFM Hendon
1E18 Hallinportti Ilmailumuseo (Halli Aviation Museum), Finland
???? Historic Flight, Venezuela

Caudron G IV

1720 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
4262/2170 NASM, Washington Dulles

Hanriot HD 1

75 RAFM Hendon
78 Brussels Air Museum
515 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
653? Fliegermuseum, Duebendorf
5934 Planes of Fame, Chino, California
???? Ecuadorian Air Force Museum, Quito (poor and non-authentic condition)

Maurice Farman S.7 Longhorn

‘1’ Norsk Teknisk Museum, Oslo
???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Maurice Farman S.11 Shorthorn

‘CFS-20’ RAAF Museum, Point Cook, Victoria (Composite of three aircraft, with 70% new)
‘VH-UBC’ Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
???? Brussels Air Museum
???? National Science Museum, Tokyo
???? JASDF?

Maurice Farman HF 20

???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Moraine-Saulnier AI

1567 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais (Type XXIX)
1573 Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida
2283 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (reserve collection)
???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State
???? Museo Aeronautico, Montevideo (is it still in existence – major fire in 1998?)

Moraine-Saulnier BB

A301 RAFM Stafford (incomplete – fuselage & undercarriage)

Nieuport IV.G

M1 Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

Nieuport 10

1467 Museo Nazionale della Scienza e della Tecnica, Milan

Nieuport 83

???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

Nieuport XI C.1

556 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Nieuport 12 A.2

1504 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Nieuport 23 C.1

5024 Brussels Air Museum

Nieuport 28 C.1

14 Museum of Flight, Seattle
607 Fliegermuseum, Duebendorf
688 Verkehrshaus, Lucerne
6169 San Diego Air & Space Museum (constructed from composite of original parts)
6531 US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, Alabama
‘N4123A’ NASM, Washington Dulles (composite of at least five aircraft: 6497, 7103, 7226, 6465 & 6432)
???? Museo Nacional de Aeronáutica, Argentina (incomplete crash wreck)

Schreck FBA Type H

55 Brussels Aviation Museum

Spad VII C1

S153 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
S248 Louis Blériot, GPPA, Angers (under restoration)
S254 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
S1420 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle (high degree of originality)
B9913 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (note shares identity with VAM example, little original material remaining and contains inaccuracies in its construction)
B9913 Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia (note shares identity with CAM example, built from parts left over from CAM example’s restoration, again contains little original material but better built than CAM example, original woodwork now sold on again, in Arlington, Washington State)
B9914 Kermit Weeks, (incomplete aircraft, wrecked by storm damage, now under rebuild)
B9916 San Diego Aviation Museum
S11583 Czech Aviation museum, Kbely
AS94099 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Spad XIII C1

SP49 Brussels Air Museum
S4377 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais
S5295 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
S7689 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington
16594 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
????? Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle (restored as Spad VII)
????? Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle (“remains” – how complete? In store)
????? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (fuselage and wings – in store)

Spad XVI

AS9392 NASM, Washington Dulles

Voisin L.A.5

V955 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
???? Brussels Air Museum (incomplete)
???? The Aviation Museum, Monio, Moscow

Voisin VIII

4640 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

Voisin X Ca2

??? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (fuselage pod only, reserve collection)

No Known Survivors (250+ Built)

Dorand AR.1/AR.2 (??? built)
Morane-Saulnier L/LA (600+ built)
Morane-Saulnier P (565 built)
Nieuport 17C.1 (1,000+ built?)
Nieuport 24/27 (??? built)
Nieuport-Delage 29C.1 (??? built)
Salmson 2 (c3,200 built)

As you will see there are still a few queries and missing s/ns that I would welcome some assistance with. I have also taken the liberty to make an attempt at identifying the most significant gaps in the ranks of survivors.