star49Reproducing the original D-30F-6 with new materials and new production tehniques would achieve the goal. But, the question is, does Russia have enough resources for opening the production line again? Don’t think so, they are into a lot of projects already – PAK-FA, Su-35BM, Su-34, Tu-160, that’s just concerning state-sponsored fixedwing aircraft, consider rotaries and other “non-flying” assets that VVS needs, too.
Saturn’s AL-41F will have same thrust as D-30F-6, however, they are configured for dry supercruise, D-30F-6 for wet supercruise. I’m not sure how would the Foxhound behave if it were powered by AL-41 family, or what kind of modification should be done to basic AL-41 design for Foxhound to achieve same characteristics as it has with D-30F-6.
IMHO, new MiG-31 upgrade will retain D-30F-6. Maybe last upgrade batches get some other engines, but we’ll wait for decent amount of time before that happens
I dont think MIG-31 will get a different engine. Su-34/PAK-FA/Su-27SMs will share engines from same technical base. so no separate development costs.
US is spending $900B on weopons programs but most of them are over budget. 1/3 is JSF. I dont think PAK-FA is that big in overall Russian defence procurement. At most 5% of overall weopons programs.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2675546&C=america
star49Then these high priority targets will be saturated with jamming, decoys, SDBs and Tomahawk strikes. Take these few high priority sites down and watch the effectivess of the air defense network crumble
why bring tomhawks? russia have plenty of systems for premptive strikes on airbases much before any aircraft take off. It takes hrs for tomhawk to reach the target and it is few minutes for Iskanker-M with extreme maneuvers in end.
star49now comparing J-10 to aircraft built 2 decades ago in 4 decades old factories.
It would be interesting to see how much composites are used in ARJ-21 (like all composite wing).
star49SAM technology is developing very fast but is getting expensive and need alot of time to train.
now Tor-M 1.5 is for export. one of feature of S-400 system is its ability to be guided by air assests like A-50/MIG-31 and protection by Pentyir system.
true net centric ability with every sensor guiding another gives advantage to the side having more verstile systems. S-400/Tor-M 1.5/Pentsyir in same jurisdiction will be almost impossible to penetrate.
star49The cost of the state contract for the construction of the submarine totaled 23 billion roubles, out of the total, 14 billion – for construction. The volume of the state defence order in 2007 for the ship’s construction amounted to 4,920 million roubles. Work will be completed in 2008. The submarine is now ready 82 percent.
so $900m for total contract out of which $540m for contruction. by that price they can afford alot more of these.
star49S-400 follow on.
http://www.kommersant.com/p756756/r_500/Almaz_Antei_air_space_defense
Almaz-Antey Consortium successful in fifth-generation combat systems – Air Force commander
MOSCOW. April 3 (Interfax-AVN) – The Almaz-Antey consortium has played an important part in the development of the Russian air defense force and helped deploy an effective air defense system of the new generation, thinks Army General Vladimir Mikhailov, Air Force commander-in-chief.
“Considerable importance in the development of the Russian air defense system is attached to the Almaz-Antey Consortium. The decision to establish it was a correct and timely step, with over forty companies merged into it. The program of these companies is clearly visible in the work of the consortium, and I am sure that we will witness a breakthrough in its production in the near future,” Mikhailov told Interfax-AVN.
He noted that this is true not only with respect to the S-400 systems, which will start be fielded this year. According to him, the S-400 helped the designers to evolve in their understanding of the concept of a fifth-generation air defense system. Such a system will be more compact, more agile and have even better combat characteristics.
“The idea to amalgamate several companies into one big helped create conditions for successful development and production of state-of-the-art equipment. When the S-400 was being developed, a team of specialists was formed, who can be really creative, and moreover have certain proposals as to the characteristics of a newer system,” Mikhailov said.
He noted, however, that there are no critically new solutions in the new equipment. “The characteristics will be improved by upgrading the electronic elements of the system. With their introduction, the systems will be able to “see” farther and higher, and react faster, which will ensure its capability to be used in a broader range of applications, e.g. to repel aggression from space,” he said
star49MIG-31 upgrade is associated with new missile.
Upgraded MiG-31 to imply all fifth-generation fighter solutions – Air Force chief
MOSCOW. Dec 18 (Interfax-AVN) – The official tests of the upgraded MiG-31 fighter will end in 2007, Army General Vladimir Mikhailov, Russian Air Force commander-in-chief, told Interfax-AVN.
“We are quite satisfied with the results of the MIG aircraft corporation’s work, as this year we will finish the official trials of the aircraft, and all the solutions to be inherent in the fifth-generation fighter, will be first introduced in the MiG-31,” he said.
According to him, after the tests, the MiG-31 will be able to launch new missiles, featuring longer range, better accuracy and some other characteristics improved.
Commenting on the reduction of air defense force, he noted that this would have to be made up for. “The S-400 system is the thing to do the job. It has a longer range and fires at higher altitudes, and can shoot down all enemy air attack assets, which is most important,” he said. The reductions helped to upgrade weapons, which in turn compensated them.
Speaking about brand new solutions and their introduction into the Air Force, he said that there is the Su-34 to replace the Su-24, and the Yak-130 combat trainer. The Air Force also has a fully operational Mi-28 attack helicopter, which is completing the first phase of the official tests. Good modernization variants are available for Su-25, Su-24, MiG-29 and Su-27 aircraft, and much has been done on the future tactical aircraft, he said.
He maintained that the joint efforts with India are under way over a medium transport aircraft. “It is likely to be ready for operation soon,” he said. “The development of the Il-112 light transport is also in full swing. So, we have lots of projects. The only thing we need is a little increase in funding, and we have some thoughts how to achieve this, too,” he said. He noted as well as that modernized Il-76MF will soon start being assembled in Ulyanovsk, where assembly shops for An-124-100 Ruslans will also be reopened.
star49he is saying designation is classified. So he is referring only to some export missile.
here more 150km height
http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=38504&cid=25
Moscow, on April, 5th. (ITAR-TASS). New it is antiaircraft-rocket system S-400 will act(arrive) in armies of Command of special purpose(assignment,destination) in July-August, 2007, general-colonel Jury Solovev has informed at press conference ordering armies of Command of special purpose(assignment,destination) (КСПН).” We expect to receive this complex in July-August, to lead its(his) reception and bombardment of technics(technical equipment), and then and to put it(him) on fighting watch “, – it(he) has told. According to Соловьева, system S-400 ” Triumph ” in some times surpasses existing С-300 ” on noise immunity, on target channels, on shooting on the high-speed purposes “.
Nightingales has reminded, that new ЗРС ” can work on the hypersound purposes flying with speed up to 3 thousand of m/s at heights up to 150 km “. It(he) has informed, that the first shelfs which in August will take up fighting watch on С-400, ” will simultaneously receive also rockets of the raised(increased) radius of action
star49is this related to S-400 when designation and capabilities are classified.
MOSCOW. April 6 (Interfax-AVN) – The Fakel Design Bureau has developed a new missile, capable of engaging any attack means, which will take the Russian air defense system to a qualitatively new level, Fakel Designer General Vladimir Svetlov said.
“Several of our missiles, being tested, will considerably boost combat capabilities of famous Russian air defense missile systems. The design bureau has also developed a missile for the new air defense missile system. We believe that it will become the leader among air defense missiles. Its capabilities and even designation are classified. I believe that the missile will remain the leader for decades to come. The missile will be capable of killing any attack means,” Svetlov said in an interview with the Nedelya supplement to the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper.
Commenting on the question whether the new missile would be able to intercept the U.S. X-51 new-generation hypersonic missile, Svetlov said: “Personally, I doubt if the U.S. will be able to deliver on the characteristics specified. But even if it is, and if the X-51 is developed, the new Russian missile will have no problem in intercepting it.”
According to him, at the moment there are no aircraft, capable of evading Russian missiles, in the world
star49For the future, the PAF is positioning itself to buy up to two squadrons of Chinese J-10 fighters as it seeks to diversify its inventory of top-of-the-range aircraft. ACM Ahmed said negotiations for the purchase have begun, with the PAF outlining its preference for avionics and weapon systems. “We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion],” he said.
MIG-35 would be more logical to buy as it is more devloped in avionics and FBW with 3D TVC and rest of FC-1 fleet is based on RD engines for decades to come.
star49basically detecting non-afterburning jet at 45km and more(here a bit classifed). and missile launch at 50km. ten times better than previous systems.
http://www.aviapedia.com/video/new-mig-35-ols-video
Viktor Shargorodsky, NII PP general designer: “One day we met RSK MiG deputy chief designer and he has asked us a simple question: “Do you know avionics?”. We answered him that in general yes, but never had such developments. He said that it is very good and gave us several technical task definitions to check. And asked us not to discuss it with professional avionics designers.”Such unusual request was explained very easily. MiG engineers were looking for people who could do OLS development from zero, ignoring existing experience. Only this way it was possible to make a completely new system in short time period.
MiG engineers have defined basic points of the optical locator system development:
– multispectrality. System should work both in visible and IR ranges
– integrity. TV and IR systems, laser ranging system should be united in one solid construction
– system should work on wide angles, up to 360 and identify shapes of aerial and ground targetsOLS works not only in visible bands. Very important part of “plane vision” is IR picture. NII PP engineers has chosen more short-wave bands for the matrix, which has increased sensitivity of the complex in several times and has increased detection range greatly.
MiG-35 OLS may see USAF stealth planes very nicely as well. Today it’s impossible to hide the plane from the complex of powerful optics with IR vision.
Viktor Shargorodsky, NII PP general designer: “Stealth technology today is mostly decreasing it’s visibility in radio bands. But for the optical bands, especially in IR ranges the main parameter is temperature. And you can do nothing about it. Engines have great flow of hot air which can be detected perfectly from the big range if we are behind the plane. If we are going face to face, so first of all we still see some part of this flow and second we can see the front edges of wings which meet air flow and become warm too.”
New OLS is intelligence system of technical vision to work in realtime of fast combat environment. In air combat complex allows:
– detect not-afterburning target on the 45km range and more;
– identify this target on 8-10km range;
– estimate aerial target range up to 15 km.For the ground targets complex allows:
– tank effective detection range up to 15 km, aircraft carrier – 60-80 km;
– identify the tank type on the 8-10 km, aircraft carrier type – 40-60 km;
– estimate ground target range up to 20 km.Viktor Sumerin, NII PP deputy general designer: “In addition, our system has high-level calculation unit. As a part, there are three CPUs of the Pentium4 level. They help to analyze the picture, allow system to work in overview mode, detect targets on long distances and on the sun-lighted clouds background.”
In the first time this complex uses fiber channel for the data transmission. Fiber was adopted especially for this complex. It passes digital signal and the transfer speed reaches 600 Mbit/s – it’s brilliant parameters.
Viktor Sumerin, NII PP deputy general designer: “For example, this is one of the IR detectors. This is narrow-field detector. Here all the data are being passed by the fiber channel.”
Besides, new fiber channel is very reliable – from the words of the engineers it will work even if heavy tank will go over it.
Viktor Sumerin, NII PP deputy general designer: “Actually this is almost for the first time when fiber channel is being used in the combat aviation, so we had to go through many doubts of the aviation specialists. It was known that fiber channel is unreliable, that it often brakes down and that plane vibrations affect the data transmission
OLS created in NII PP is not just another modern instrument. This is totally new device which completely fits the idea of 5th generation combat plane. Already today parameters of the OLS are about ten times better then old systems. But NII PP is not going to stop. Next stage of the development will be to upgrade the optical complex intelligence level and to combine it with onboard radar.
star49I don’t really see that much change in the plane’s basic aerodynamics. That’s what really counts. Even though the plane is intended to replace the Su-24, I don’t see any change to make it a low flying interdictor.
How can u see when every thing is from inside. Remember Russians are the owners of science. only they can do the impossible
plane is intended to replace Su-24/Su-25/Tu-22. But it will take untill 2020 for all the 200 Planes. Do u even know the upgraded Su-24 performance? it also is rated for 8 tons and 3000 ET.
Everything else you posted is vague marketing information that has yet to be proven to the client.
Marketing information? they arent selling it to any one and everything is Classified
But it happened alright, it happened. In many wargames, the JH-7s play low flying interdictors and its up for the Sues, J-10s and J-8s to catch them. Hardly a lumbering platform I should say.
Chinese wargames are false information just like J-10 beating Su-27 and hiring foreign coaches for Gold Medals and sending twice the athletes.
You’re kidding me. Kh-31A only has 91kg of warhead, while a YJ-83 has at least double of that. The range of the Kh-31A is much more limited, up to 70km, and its never been proven or sighed that the Su-30 can carry more than four.
that KH-70 specification is alteast 20 years old. Newer ones are for 200KM range and even for newer ones for internal carriage like Kh-36/38 and Universal missile. Russia release things for export which are alteast 10 years old by there Science standards.
and how Su-30 in operations u have seen? everything is in peace time. which does not reflect its war time carrying ability which only manufacturer can give. u havent shown me JH-7A manufacturer site.
You don’t think the PLAAF and PLANAF has tested all this? The PLAAF has stopped buying Su-30MKKs last 2004. After that, they acquired JH-7As and updated H-6s. The PLANAF never went beyond one regiment of Su-30MK2 with the Kh-31A.
dont tell me PLAAF/PLANAF standards. they buy obsolete IL-76 and build cheaper clones of Antonovs. buying decisions are taken years in advance.
Wake me up when Brahmos is finally in operational service with an air platform.
It will be ready in next 2 years.
They were referring to Russian warranty that’s for sure. There has been many issues on the past on this, and even on vessels like the Kilo. 5 out of 20 Klub launches failed. 5 out of 15 RD-93s received failed. 1 out of 5 R-77 launches failed.
how do u know? and where is RD-93 failure? and Press logic there wont be RD-93 for Pakistan.
Sky high prices and without a strong brand name recognition is not good. Increase is month to month not even in years.
there is reason for that. no one can raise wages at such a speed
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070403/63015210.html
MOSCOW, April 3 (RIA Novosti) – Household real disposable income in Russia grew 12.7% year on year in January-February 2007 while real average monthly wages rose 17.5%, the country’s top statistics body said Tuesday
Which is not very helpful in producing consistent high quality products in mass for export.
and why they need that? thing about higher Technolgoy chain of multinational firm.
who cares about your excuses. For all your vaunted intellectual power, they don’t explain the bottomline, which is by far the GDP is made up of raw mineral and oil export. That’s the economic structure of a 3rd world country.
and GDP can capture Intellectual power.? how u explain 2 trillion dollar of Stock market overnight?
[quote]
And Russia have a service sector at all? How can you even have one when you don’t even have proper rule of law, which is the basic investor complaint. [/qoute]
yes they happens to have more expensive cities than China despite 10 times less population and twice the area and much lower energy costs.
Give me proof. The Kh-31 does not even have the range and programming flexbility of the Harpoon.
Proof is Malaysian airforce when they consider it superior to Harpoon. Show me single airforce that comes to opposite conclusion.?
5m? Only in the very final phase of flight. Supersonic AshMs generally are around 10 to 30m. You don’t have terrain following autopilot that will work at supersonic speeds, and both drag and turbulence are immense at sea level.
Just read the Brahmos ad from Indian side even they are saying 3 to 5m in final phase. when customer is acknowlging what else u wants. now where is ur thirdy party proof of YJ range and height?
Subsonic AshMs go down to 3m, and one or two like the Gabriel goes down to 2m.
and what makes u think supersonic doesnt go to 3 m in final phase when so much is classified about them. read the Hidden Potenial and just the pice than India paid for Club. and just look at Algerians Kilos.
star49Not enough. And it is still not a totally different class of aircraft. Its relationship to the Su-27 is like the Super Hornet to the Hornet. Not necessasrily better in terms of flight performance. And it still has 3x less fuel than an Tu-16.
It is totally different class and interms of flight profile, strenthening of wings, internal fuel, shape, FBW, Radar etc. can Flanker lift a 3 3000Litre tanks or two moskits. just its three weopon stations provide 8000kg of external load. it can take missiles side by side on centeral paylon. it is totally different level of flexibility. and its specifications have never been revealed. these are old floating around from 90s.
http://www.royfc.com/news/aug/2503aug01.html
The Leninets Holding Company is the developer of the avionics for this aircraft. The airplane provides operation against practically all possible types of targets from low and extremely low altitudes with high probability, reliable negotiation of powerful modern air defense systems, operation in any weather and time of day
http://www.royfc.com/news/mar/0805mar01.html
While speaking of the Su-34, the aircraft builders are brief. They answer many questions in short: this is classified information
Hard to browse through the Chinese news sites since I don’t have Chinese text entry but that was there last February.
so it is not even worth considering.
I’m not going to try to prove that, that’s for the factory. What I do doubt is that an Su-30 will make a better ASM platform, considering that supersonic ASMs are going to cost you what in weight? 2000kg at least? Sunburn is 4000kg. YJ-83 is only 700plus. 4 of them is around 3000kg.
whats the point of carrying four when it cannot even sink a corvette. better carry 6 kh-31 alteast it has supersonic energy. 3 Brahmos should be enough for destroyer size ship considering it has 9 times energy of subsonic. it depends on mission. Su-30 can approach the target faster and turn around faster. simply superior platform.
There are pictures, and the plane is clearly a two seater. First Pace examined the second seat, then allowed to climb and seat inside the front seat.
Plane is cleary two seater but they are not referring to that particular plane.
Even with the Chinese made Su-27s, the Russians are still supposed to warranty all Russian sourced parts, engines, radar, avionics and so on.
It is not clear what kind of support is missing. offcours it cannot be USAF standard as they 250 flight hrs airforce vs 120 flight hrs.
Maybe the US has recorded more tests, but only decide to leak once. Leaking too often to the media and you probably will have an internal clampdown.
thats what i am saying. tommroow they will say 10000km antiship missile.
J-7 and J-8 are not that standard as not all units fly them, snice these other units will also be flying Su-30, Su-27, and J-10. But YJ-8X is a very encompassing and versatile standard since it has both air and sea launched version, launched from destroyers, frigates and FACs, and as well as a sub launched version. It is also now being supplemented by the new YJ-62, already in operational use with 2 destroyers, whose export version is derated at 280km just to meet MTCR.
YJ-8 is the same thing like PL-8 almost on every thing. simple and cheap.
Suffice to say, China has no need for any Russian ASM strike platform with the sole exception if China decides to buy Su-33s for the Varyag. Lack of carrier experience is the big hole here.
the prices of Russian exports are now sky high. without exchange of natural resources i doubt they want to deal on any currency. considering there wage and currency growth.
Because Russian claims can also be doubted.
why it should be doubted. they have 300 years of continous history from Russian Academy of science.
Germany has a way of executing its science and technology into viable, world class products. So does Japan. So does the US. Korea is getting there, and China is working its way up. But where is Russia? Still a massive imbalance in finished and technological goods. So your pure science isn’t being executed properly to produce viable products.
Kind a look at East Germany and its intellectual power under 4 decades of communism. the rest are not worth the example.
u dont have proper understanding of history and from where the millions of special people comes from. u only see end product but the not the science behind it. they have unique products even from communist times. like Kamz trucks that won Paris-dakkar rally 5 out 5 times. I want to see any Chinese machine repeat this under its own intellectual power.
Good for them. But nonetheless, there is very little commercial product coming out of Russia in proportion to its GDP.
and why should they make a commercial product now when Service sector is the dominant economy of the world. In West it is almos 80% of GDP. and in service sector u dont know who is providing the intellectual capital. every firm is multi ethinic.
Harpoon is the current standard which all ASMs are measured against. It is smart and quite nimble. For a given weight, that’s like 3 Harpoons vs. one Club/Brahmos. I would rather have the numerical advantage.
RMAF found even KH-31 better than Harpoon. so when customer want to pay from its own pocket money. the choice is obvious.
Yes they are smart drones, and don’t ask about height. Supersonic ASMs don’t go down as low as subsonic missiles anyway, and you can’t because it is easy for them to maneuver into the water. The Vandal is designed to mimic the Sunburn, Yakhont, Granit, etc, and you can program it anyway you want.
Brahmos goes 5 m in the end.( and its true ability are not even revealed to the public. See the hidden potential)
so show me how much other subsonic goes in low flight.
star49well, I can see where you skepticism comes from. Again, I don’t have the drag figure on F-14 and JH-7A. I’d rather a non-swept wing fighter like F-15E get compared to JH-7A in this sense. I would think Spey is more fuel efficient at cruising speed. And frankly, I don’t know what exactly is the internal fuel JH-7A.
Spey may be more efficient ( A big if considering royal navy quickly hand over those underpowered and maintaince intensive to RAF) if bomber is clean. the momen u load it up with 4 ot 5 tons external weopons. ur underpowered jet wants afterburner to lift up. F-15E has access power to float around in nonafterburner.
it’s not 3000km, it’s 3500km. 3000 km was before prototype 04.
Same with the FBC-1 figures, they haven’t been updated for a while.
there is some changes to newer FC-1 that may have increased its fuel capacity and hence range little bit but that happen in 2006. just look at the picture what prototype is shown. the page does not look old.
so what great things happened with FBC-1/JH-7A in past one to 3 years. that change ferry range into operational range with 6.5tons external load.?
star49This is from export website. the same website puts FC-1 ferry range 3000KM.(which is obviously with 3 drop tanks).
Even these figures should be taken with heavy dose of skepticism as Chinese ET are small relatively for size of aircraft.
In F-4K these engines got only 10% improvement over J-79 but much worse performance at altitude. This JH-7A will take for ever to get upt to speed and and altitude.
http://www.catic.com.cn/en/Product_Server/products_intro.asp?list=&Content_id=2467&TypeTreeID=1833
The FBC-1 is a two-seat, twin-engine, supersonic fighter bomber for carrying out air to ground/sea attack and air interception. It is powered by two FWS-9 engines and equipped with advanced fire control and integrated avionics system. A variety of weapons such as air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, air-to-ground missiles and guided bombers can be carried by the FBC-1.
Dimensions
Overall length 22.325m
Wing span 12.705m
Overall height 6.575m
Weights and Payload
Max. take-off weight 28,475kg
Max. external load 6,500kg
Performance
Max. Mach number 1.7
Service ceiling 15,600m
Max. g limit 7g
Operational radius 1,650km
Ferry range 3,650km
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