star49Exactly, he sent poorly trained, ill-equipped troops to undertake a poorly defined task with the premier combat units of the Russian Army just a few miles northe having only just exercised for just such a scenario. it does not get much more stupid than that.
They were neither poor nor ill trained for there geography.. they were just coward and incompetent. Now they have presented huge bill to there sponsors for rebuilding with there larger than life stories. It is the same failed project of West that led to Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/23/world/europe/23azeri.html?ref=europe
When the fighting began, Azerbaijan appealed to Russia, asking it to preserve its infrastructure in Georgia — a port, an oil terminal and a pipeline. Moscow agreed, according to Azerbaijan’s foreign minister, Elmar Mammadyarov.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2534767/Georgia-Russia-targets-key-oil-pipeline-with-over-50-missiles.html
Georgia: Russia targets key oil pipeline with over 50 missiles
star49Saab isn’t the provider Investor is(biggest owner). One of the biggest investment companies in the world.
surely the level of investment and technology transfer necessary for this size of contract is beyond SAAB capability. SAAB is good for small size contracts of 10 to 20 aircraft supplied over decade with minimum customization.
6-7 tons, is that in the recuirements? do you distrust that SAAB can deliver what they offer? have they ever not delivered? :confused:
JAS-39 is basic airdefence fighter wth performance worse than MIG-29A. It is no match to MIG-29K/MIG-35.
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH0208/FR0208d.htm
The Swedes, accustomed as they are to high technology, are astonished by the performance that is possible on the MiG-29. That the Fulcrum, with its two RD-33 engines each producing 81.3kN of thrust with afterburning, should have considerably more power available than the Gripen is no surprise. The JAS 39 is after all powered by a single RM12 turbofan developed by Volvo from the General Electric F404 turbine and delivering 80.5kN of thrust with afterburning. ”But they have been really surprised by what we can achieve despite the MiG’s outdated avionics”, says Squadron Leader Treinies.
intellectual rights isnt a problem, Saab has contracts with supplyers. The only thing that stops is the law from the suppliers nation. And if america and rest of europe can sell so can Saab..So the law will not stop.
There is some thing called integrated defence structure. Klimov is under MIG. M-88 is used in Rafale. EJ-200 is only used by EF. what will Saab do? and than there is weopons issue with source codes and ability to modify them for than 300km. Some of the claims related to JAS-39N are plain rediculous. like weight of 7100 kg but with 40% more fuel than JAS-39C. How can this be? when it is using heavier AESA radar with all its requirements, heavier engine, structure stressed for more weopon stations & load. JAS-39 is material and advance manufacturing wise dead end. It is not MIG/Sukhoi that it can take advantage of new lighter avionics, basically same engine weight with new materials and process to lighten the weight or keep the same weight. Thats why in real life it cannot outperform MIG-29A with limited engine life and lack of FBW.
star49Are you kidding? Gripen has the upperhand in offsets, and tech-transfer, just look in norway, with over 180% offset, and full techtransfer on the offer.
Gripen will be assembled by Tata motors if they win the deal.
Surely Saab can provide $20 to $25B of offsets in current environment. Even Boeing/EADS would find it nearly impossible for that kind of investmeent. SAAB does not own all intellectual rights of Gripen components. Weapons are another issue. SAAB has to demonstrate real fighter with 6 to 7 tons weopons load not some paper specification.
star49http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081022/117885862.html
Russia test launches RS-18 ICBM from Baikonur in Kazakhstan
16:18 | 22/ 10/ 2008
MOSCOW, October 22 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s Strategic Missile Forces (SMF) have successfully launched an RS-18 (SS-19 Stiletto) intercontinental ballistic missile from the Baikonur space center in Kazakhstan, the SMF said on Wednesday.
As a result of the successful launch at 13.10 Moscow time (09:10 GMT) on Wednesday, the Stiletto ICBMs, which have so far been operational for 29 years, will remain on combat duty beyond 2010.
“The launch confirmed the decision to extend the service life of one of our most reliable missile complexes,” the SMF said in a statement.
Russia’s SMF regularly launch missiles to test their performance characteristics and decide whether they can remain in service.
Over the past five years Russia conducted 31 test launches of RS-12M (SS-25 Sickle), R-18 (SS-19 Stiletto) and RS-20 (SS-18 Satan) ICBMs and will double the number of test launches after 2009.
Russia extended the service life of the Stiletto missile to 31 years following a successful test launch in October 2007.
The missile has a combat range exceeding 9,600 km [more than 6,000 miles] and is considered to be highly reliable.
Over 100 silo-based Stilettos are currently in service with the SMF, with each missile carrying six 550-kiloton warheads.
RS-18 will be gradually replaced by new RS-24 ICBMs, equipped with MIRV warheads and characterized by its high missile-defense penetration capability
star49Pretty long visits almost three months.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20081022/117884293.html
Russian Northern Fleet ships arrive in Turkey
15:20 | 22/ 10/ 2008
MOSCOW, October 22 (RIA Novosti) – A naval task force from Russia’s Northern Fleet has arrived in Turkey, an aide to the navy commander said Wednesday.
The task force includes the nuclear-powered missile cruiser Pyotr Veliky (Peter the Great) and the large ASW ship Admiral Chabanenko.
“The working call of the Northern Fleet task force to Turkey will contribute to further development of naval relations between the two states in the interest of strengthening stability and mutual confidence at sea,” Capt. 1st rank Igor Dygalo said.
The visit will last until Sunday.
The naval task force comprising also support ships left a naval base in northern Russia on September 22.
After port calls and training at sea in the Mediterranean, the Northern Fleet warships will head for the Caribbean to hold exercises in November with Venezuela’s navy.
star49This important statement. Its put to rest that EF is way better than the other 4th generation fighters. Decision is based on offsets and investments rather than technical abilities. labor costs and labor productivity are two different things.
Russian MiG-35 can make rival at Indian tender – UAC head
MOSCOW. June 28 (Interfax-AVN) – The Mikoyan MiG-35 aircraft is likely to make a strong rival to all other participants in the Indian Air Force’s tender for 126 fighter jets acquisition.
“The aircraft of world leading aircraft manufacturers are quite of the same kind and differ slightly one from another, so the winner will be the one who offers the best offset programs and life costs,” Alexei Fyodorov, the President of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), told a news conference, noting that every firm to participate in the tender, including Russian MIG Aircraft Corporation, will offer cost reduction programs.
Offset programs and technology transfer are the main conditions of the tender, and MIG is willing to go quite far on this road. Russia has a wealth of experience in transferring technologies under its Mikoyan and Sukhoi sales projects with India, Fyodorov said.
Commenting on mass media claims that license production in India turns to be more expensive than direct acquisition from Russia, he said that it is unlikely. “The prime costs of assembling aircraft in India are nor known, but although the labor productivity in India may be a little lower than in Russia, the labor costs are also lower,” he said.
star49RuaN carrier is more of cruiser than strike aircraft ship.
Russia will build nuclear-powered aircraft carriers – Navy Command
ST.PETERSBURG. June 25 (Interfax-AVN) – Admiral Valdimir Masorin, the commander of the Russian Navy, believes the Navy should have in its disposal in the future aircraft carriers, especially nuclear-powered ones.
“The overall design of the future aircraft carrier is being worked out, with the active participation of the scientific community and industry. But it’s already obvious that it will be a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with a tonnage of around 50,000 tonnes,” Masorin told Interfax-AVN on Saturday.
“Our plans are that the carrier will have around 30 aircraft: planes and helicopters.” “The behemoths the U.S. Navy builds, with up to 100-130 planes and helicopters, we will not build,” Masorin said.
He stressed that the only carrier currently in the Russian Navy, Admiral of the Soviet Navy Nikolai Kuznetsov, will serve at the minimum up to 2015. “In fact we project that it will serve for about 30 years from the date of its commissioning, before ‘retiring’.” It will be replaced by the new ship of the project. Masorin said.
star49Oh come on … its maybe at best a promotional video ! So far two prototypes are lflying … no Su-35 ever flew against a TYphoon not such a manouver !!
Su-35 does not need to fly against EF. It has all the data of EF flight performance from Saturn the designer of J-10 engines. from weights to speed requirements at various altitudes. while that JOUST is baseless speculation when knowing nothing about Sukhoi.
IT’s actually very strange:
Everytime anyone from Sukhoi says anything like that its the holy truth … and if something pro EF is written or said by anyone of its partner countries … is a lie, a false report … biased and with some political intention but surely not true !!
I have yet to see EADS put anything on its website. The should demonstrate. there was demonstration exercises in 2001 in Russian where Su-30 destroy targets at 400km. Imagine what can they do in 2008? Only MTCR regualtion is preventing.
Sounds much to much like a desperate marketing outcry !
I would suggest to close this tread … it’s useless to discuss any further and I hope a moderator agrees with that !
Deino 😡
Surely when nothing can be backed up so u want to close the thread. Just look at SFO investigation where Blair himself said he closed it. Publicly admitting. IF there was nothing there was no need to close. This is called desperate marketing ploy.
star49No Flanker is gonna perform a Cobra or Kulbit at supersonic speeds. TVC is used for slow speed high AoA manuevers, and supersonic trim. It’s not used to perform airshow manuevers at M2. Again, the payload isn’t part of the aircraft’s aerodynamic stability/instability equation. Those large AAMs, are for use against AWACS, not Typhoons, and they’re not in service currently.
It does not say that long range engagement are for AWACS and where u combine Supreme flight performance with superagility in one line?. For Typhoon TVC is case of sour grapes.
http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/military/su-35.wbp
Su-35 is designed to gain air superiority through manned and unmanned aircraft destroying by guided missiles in medium and long range engagements and dogfights; to destroy ground and surface targets by all type of weapon, as well as destroy the enemy ground infra-structure facilities located very far from the base airfields heavily protected by the active AAD system
The Su-35 merits are the following:Supreme flight performance, superagility mode
star49The figures I’ve seen are 185km against fighters, 260km against bombers, apparently with the ability to track up to 40 targets. This is for the Stage 2G model AI 24. The current model is the Stage 3(or better), which should be even more capable.
It barely achieves its original objective of seeing bomber after two decades.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/RAF_Tornado_F3_-_History/id/5403626
The CSP would see the removal of a non-standard state of aircraft, various upgrades (notably to the Foxhunter radar) had lead to the situation described as “fleets within fleets.” However the Foxhunter radar, having overcome many of the early difficulties, was to cause significant problems during the upgrade programme. This manifested itself when efforts were made to integrate the AMRAAM missile with the aircraft as a replacement for Skyflash. The radar had to be considerably modified to interface properly with the missile.In what was criticised as shortsighted at the time the F3 would not exploit the full capabilities of the AMRAAM missile. AMRAAM uses two mid-course updates after launch to refresh target information prior to its own seeker taking over. The CSP, as announced, would not provide this capability. Despite becoming operational before 2002 the F3 force deployed on operations with the Skyflash, not AMRAAM, leading to suggestions that the decision not to fully integrate the missile made it no more effective than the original missile. In 2002 the MoD announced the F3 force would receive a further upgrade to allow these midcourse updates.
star49Do you understand what aerodynamic stability/instability is? It’s not dependant upon the payload, altitude, or speed.
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj88/spr88/siuru.html
“An integral part of enhanced maneuverability is relaxed static stability. Most aircraft are designed to be inherently stable so that they automatically return to straight and level flight, for example, after a wind gust or a Pilot command. While good static stability means a forgiving airplane, it is incompatible with the superior maneuverability desired in a fighter. Today’s newer fighters are normally designed with relaxed static stability, that is, with little, zero, or even negative static stability. Without the sophisticated stability augmentation systems used in modern fighters, pilots could not maintain control of their aircraft.”
It is alot harder to achieve this with heavy fighter that can carry combine 20 tons of internal and external loads. compare F-22 with F-16.
3D TVC is nice, but is most useful at low airspeeds to compensate for lost lift over the wings. It’s certainly not necessary for extreme manuevering, and it increases the RCS. The Typhoon is designed to have extremely high supersonic maneuverability, due to a highly unstable aerodynamic design. It allows for very high instantaneous maneuvers, and the high T/W allows for good sustained maneuvering.
Sukhoi clearly knows what supersonic agility and they are going to use TVC for BVR avoidance. Haven u seen the Su-35 video where it avioids EF missiles.
EF currently is not designed for 600 to 700 kg AAM missile but Su-35 is along with long range strike weopons. It is in different league.
star49You seriously do not have any, whatsoever, knowledge of aerodynamics or how “aircraft work” do you. None, nothing.
EF is pretty ordinary design
Its the most unstable aircraft in the world, is just one and only one of many that makes it not ordinary my friend.
This lack of knowledge is evident by this post (excluding he one above)
Even a small RC plane can be unstable. Aircraft is unstable to what it can carry internally and exteranally at what speeds and altitudes. By that criterial only Su-35 is the most advance design. Almost impossible to replicate with that FBW controlled 3D TVC’
That was the answer to my statement saying the Mig-25 and F-15 are not similar in performance.:rolleyes:
Both F-15 and MIG-25 can be upgraded to each other performance with minimal investment. Similar is the case of EF and J-10. infact J-10 has cheaper upgrade potential with enhanced thrust engines and TVC. u will have to spent fortune to upgrade EF engines and TVC.
star49http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34648&highlight=tornado+F3
Star read that and any other reference material you can find of the Tornado F3 with AMRAAM (very scare I have concluded), its a very serious interceptor with a very serious quality.
Certainly even MIG-21Bison can do the same when backed by AWACS/R-77 and they already did it without AWACS. Bision Kopyo radar is one generation old than what is offered today. It didnot prove anything about aircraft on individual basis. Even MIG-29A has defeated M2K.
All of you “non believers” about the typhoon for supersonic agility, best MMI, supercruise etc… Venky mainly I think :rolleyes:
Do you consider the Raptor to be nothing special?, because I haven’t seen any sources showing what you are asking for the typhoon, about the raptor (ie superior SS agility, MMi, and all its tricks) , yet most of the people on here believe its the best.
There is already a cheap replica of EF in shape of J-10. It just show how easily it is to create aerodynamic profile. I have yet to see F-22 look alike with internal bays, TVC, nose profile. EF is pretty ordinary design. so nothing set it apart from other 4th generation fighters. It simply dont have the internal fuel to sustain very high speeds above Mach 2 like MIG-31 nor the nose size is some dominant factor. It will become a slow bomb truck if it has to carry 6* 600kg large size BVR weopons.
star49I’m speaking of current F3 radars vs. current Fulcrums. The numbers I’ve seen are F3- 185+km against fighter size targets Zhuk-M-120+km against fighter size targets. If these figures are incorrect, please feel free to enlighten me.
Any public source?. or it is just hearsay like EF radar. RDY is the best slot array radar in EU. Taiwan paid premium for it in early 90s but IAF is not signing for it. It has to be further developed to match MIG.
Zhuk-M3 is 200km according Phozotran designer and that radar is for MIG-29K.u can check http://www.migavia.ru website. current MIG radars have twice the detection range of earlier radars of MIG-29.
star49Line of sight at 1000m ASL is 114km, At that height and range they will be clearly visible to the Defending radar and that is easily within range of both Aster 30 and SM2-ER
That ur assuming that ships are 114km close. Helix can see them at more than 300km from 1000m height and can use the appropriate Ashm strike. And u havent provided SAM intercept ranges at 1000m. U dont have any data to back it up
I hate to say this again, but please prove this, i will not believe these claims you are making unless you can cite a document from a source that will pass inspection.
Not all subsonic cruise missiles are of the same class. Club is among the fastest one in subsonic categories. Add Airlaunched capability to Brahmos at Mach 1.5 at 30,0000 feet. ur looking at 10 to 15 times force of subsonic.
See range for ground launch is constrained by control regime. ur looking at 1000km+ range without control regimes.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1095716&highlight=pillai#post1095716
Dec 27, 2003,The Economic Times)
A. Shivathanu Pillai, chief controller (R&D), DRDO and BrahMos Aerospace CEO-cum-MD, told The Times of India on Thursday that with the successful development and trials of the anti-ship version, BrahMos is now ready for production. “We’ve completed six successful tests from mobile autonomous launcher and warship to sea targets. The results of land-to-ship missions are remarkable. BrahMos warhead can hit the target nine times more powerful than a subsonic-class cruise missile,” Pillai said.Analysts said the freedom to take decisions, better management skills and deployment of high-end technology came as a boon to this prestigious joint venture launched on February 12, 1998.
BrahMos will certainly be a force multiplier to the navies of India and Russia and the results confirm it as a superior lethal weapon available in the world today. With a range restricted to 290 km due to control regimes, BrahMos has the most-advanced guidance system of Indi an origin, that would give the Navy an edge over others.
Sources said no cruise missile in the world can match the capabilities of BrahMos. The Russian-made Moskit supersonic cruise missile (with a range of 120 km) is bulky and China has purchased the same and inducted it into two warships. Another Russian product, Club missile, is a subsonic weapon with a supersonic hit and is inducted by the Navy. Even the much-talked American Tomahawk missiles are subsonic which fly at one-third the speed of BrahMos
Sign In
