upgrade path of engines is already there before they lost to PAK-FA.
since India will be building they should use composite experiance from LCA. 50% should be starting point. although MIG-35 is very light aircraft for twin engine.

Source: Krylya Rodiny, No. 11, 2001, pp. 1, 2

For the first time the Russian airplane building corporation MiG demonstrated two new versions of the MiG-29 fighter, namely the MiG-29OVT thrust-vectoring model and the MiG-29M2 (MiG-29MRCA) double-seat multirole combat airplane.

The RD-133 engine was demonstrated back in 2000, during the international exhibition Engine-2000 in Moscow. It represents an upgraded version of the RD-33 turbojet engine with afterburner with a maximum thrust increased to 5,600 kg-force and thrust with afterburner increased to 9,000 kg-force. The engine intended for the modified MiG-29SMT has a nozzle dubbed the KLIVT (Klimov thrust vectoring) with angles of deflection in both places from +15 to -15 degrees. The angular speed of nozzle rotation amounts to 30 degrees per second.

However, for the first time the RD-133 was mounted not on the MiG-29SMT but on the MiG-29OVT. The engine will improve maneuverability characteristics of the fighter at subsonic speeds.

Test bench trial of the RD-33 prototype began with a thrust of 13,500 kilogram-force in 2001. In 2002, it is planned to increase the thrust to 14,000-14,300 kilogram-force, and by the end of 2005 to 15,300 kilogram-force.
Besides the original power plant the MiG-29OVT is also fitted out with a digital fly-by-wire system and the new Zhuk-M jamming-proof radar, previously tested in the MiG-29M.

You really don’t know anything about the arms industry do you? Contract cost tend to be double of that of the flyaway cost and more because it factors corporate profit, support, training, documentation, and other unmentionables. Planes are never bought at flyaway cost but at contract cost.

Get some education will you.

so show me that contract cost for F-22 that u say is $200m per plane? u will not find that cost anywhere now in 2006.

China has a history of inventing paper money, steel, forging, blast furnace, the compass, the crossbow, the stirrup, the rudder, ship bulkheads, multimasts on ships, gun powder, the rocket, the invention of the mine, the grenade, among other things. China has invented things that changed civilization.

same is Greek/Arabs. but this has nothing to do with Industrai revolution that started from Europe. that is based on some other values and culture.
do u know why i posted the link from Arabnews (official Saudi mouth Piece) where JP went to Finland and have private talk with Finish PM and there is series of reports by him for benefits Of Arabs in that site as too wake them up from deep slumber.
It started from why Finish education system the best in the world and the most competitive economy and there he was told there is something far superior accross russia and he presented the message in coded words as future of west.
Arabs didnot sent him to study Chinese education. u only see things very superficially. just like in retail store. where u see made in China.

Documentation please. I find that funny since some of the exercises are purported to have Indians and Americans working together against another Indo-American team.

and it is more funny that u take PLA report as holy grail.

That’s been reported officially, and the PLA does not come out saying this unless its that obvious.

and what is worth of that report. like sending twice as number of athletes to Olympics compared to russia and claiming similar medals.

You don’t even know what a PGM is, do you?

thats why i ask what is it?

A laughable response. You’re the one who don’t know the RuAF. Talking about multirole, that’s what they’re doing with their Su-27SMs and MiG-29 upgrades.

u dont understand the word development (which means some thing new). Su-27SM/MIG-29SM is using already developed tech paid by exports. it is to get cheap PGM carriers for close air support. u can get 20 Su-27SM for price of 1 Su-34. Development is happening in some other places like strategic aviation and deploying missiles like Kh-65/KH-101/102. and further into fifth generation.

You are always attempting to side track things because you have a defeated argument.
Keep on topic.

no i am not side tracking things. u simply dont have understanging of things.

Lol. You don’t know how important router technology is. That’s the heart of every telecom and internet system, and for that matter, even military communications. China is the first country to implement IPV6 routers, thats the next generation of routers for the next generation of internet.

next generation of routers for next generation of internet extended to military communication? they have this systems developed since mid 70s. they are now fully capable of destroing moving targets with Billistic missilles with IIR seeker,digital scene matching, fully stealth and immune to ATBM due to terminal maneours.

from JED online 2005
On the morning of April 22, 1996, the Chechen leader Dzhokhar Dudayev was fatally wounded. He was having a long talk on his mobile telephone, the story goes, when suddenly a missile struck almost his exact location. The bane of Russian forces fighting the Chechen separatists subsequently died of his wounds. According to unconfirmed sources, Dudayev’s mobile-phone conversation was monitored by a Russian signals-intelligence (SIGINT) unit, which immediately passed the target’s grid coordinates to a missile brigade tens of kilometers away, equipped with the Tochka battlefield rocket. It took about 10 minutes from the time Dudayev was located to the impact of the missile.

Lol. Much of the Russian fleet is in mothballs. There is hardly any new engine orders for example, when engine makers like Salut, Saturn and Klimov are reporting nothing but Indian and Chinese orders. If you’re actually using your planes, you would be ordering spares for them, especially engines.

and why would they talk about Russian orders in the media. u will only hear this from exercises. Saturn alone has 80 service centers for engines working in russia. every thing does not come into media.

Russia recently signed an even larger arms-plus-oil-and-gas deal with Algeria, in which the energy sector payoffs are so large that the weapons pur chases are almost like the toy prize in a McDonald’s Happy Meal by comparison. “The fighters and other weapons are practically being given away in this deal,” said one Moscow-based aerospace industry analyst, “and the sums of money that are being bandied about are so large it is frightening.”

Bull. The ROC is an exceedingly wealthy country, with foreign reserves higher than 247 billion. That’s higher than S. Korea for only half the population, and for only a fraction of Russia’s.

Taiwan is only a contract manufacturing country and it is just intermediary to labor from China.
It is not South Korea which has its own research centers spread acrosss the Globe with its own brand name.

The ROC built the TK-2 with Raytheon help, a 150 to 200km missile with an active seeker and AEGIS phase array technology. That’s for a missile already deployed now and for some years already, while you’re still talking of a non existant undeveloped SAM proposal.

and South Korea does not want Raytheon. they have simply more money from F-15K to Wedgtail AWACS.

Lol, you think you’re better than the USAF officials? Huh?

what this has to do with USAF officials. foreign bases depends on political relationships and money.

For a guy who brought up electromagnetic weapons, you’re surely in the bag here for fantasyland. Add to that you don’t even know what a PGM is and think you got better judgement than USAF officials.

i want to know ur answer.

Oh, and they actually still operate them?

why not?

That is complete nonsense. Now you want to argue with AWACS designers and airforces who actually deployed them?

and u want to argue with those who deployed MIG-31? and has proud aviation history as anyone else on this planet.

Stabilization fund does not count since that is a reserve used in case of economic calamity. 88 billion is actually small for a stabilization fund. China poured 200 to 300 bilion into HK to stabilize it from the 1997 economic crisis.

Source of those billions? HK is just financial service center like London. it has nothing to do with science.

First you pooboohed foreign reserves, and now you pointed out that the figure comes from foreign reserves. Hypocrital.

u said that they dont have any foreign money.

Lol. Russia is open to the West like China. The only problem is, the West does not trust Russia’s government and lack of rule of law.

do u think so it is open? they dont want to be assembelers of outside multinationals. they are rich enough to ignore and throw investor. they have put high taxes on Airbus/Boeing untill there factories get modernized and Boeign/Airbus still want to do business with them. this is from 2001 now it is many times bigger after Dream liner launch.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2001/q3/nr_010727b.html
MOSCOW, July 27, 2001 — U.S. Secretary of Commerce Donald Evans visited the Boeing office in Moscow today and saw first-hand how Boeing and Russia are working together on a spectrum of commercial airplane programs
At the Engineering Design Center, Evans observed how Boeing maintains a truly global, 24-hour design program where Russian engineers design parts for Boeing airplanes while their Seattle counterparts are asleep. Using the latest state-of-the-art computers and design tools, the engineers easily maintain communication between the two sites. The Design Center opened in 1998 and now, along with Boeing’s Moscow Technology Research Center, contracts with about 650 Russian engineers, scientists and computer specialists

No. That is industrial output. That does not count service, and service sector in China is vastly undercounted.

In every country service sector is under reported. from hair cut to eating in resturant.

Lol. You must be the only one in this forum who have not seen the pics badgered in this FORUM, and in other forums like secretprojects, CDF, SDF and others. I don’t need to show you stuff that everyone has known and seen already, just as I don’t need to tell you what a PGM is. Go figure it out yourself; I don’t give free education.

i have seen pictures but there is no evidence to support that these are Multifunctional.

Bull. That experience is irrelevant since it is reported by Taiwan media that Su-30s have been vectored by Chinese AWACS since the planes appeared in 2004. It is something that has happened, just as recently, Chinese AWACS also appeared trying to scan Matsu island.

why is experiance irrelevant in this case?

You don’t know anything at all.

surely

But what do you know about the RD taking place to say what is the level of difference?

surely i know from year 2000.

Lol. China’s celphone projections is still growing and some expect as high as 600 million. China Mobile is indeed the world’s biggest telecom and celphone company in the world. When you are in this kind of busines, you are already producing your own celphone designs, routers nad repeating stations.

china has 400 million cell for 1.3b population. russia has 200 million for 140 millon so has more.? and China own cell network outside country? and do u think what is euroset.

Lol. That is just one of the many deals they have. Parts from China are being supplied to Boeing and Airbus since 1994.

u check US ITC site. it is not more than $100m a year. and amount of planes China buys.

Where is the five times larger? Show me size of assets and revenue figures.

why it so difficult. finance.yahoo.com and type both the companies understock pick. u will get all the answers. one is $500 stock the other is just $37.

And so did the Russian guy who founded Google, since he was in the US since he was five.

ever heared of sergie burknov and his search engine technolgy sold google.

The point remains, that companies are lauding their Chinese RD labs.

and those multinations are lauding so many other countries. they just want to customize products for local market nothing more. it has nothing to do with basic science.

Really. Maybe you should find out how much office space in Hong Kong is worth?

It is not Number 1 despite Fiancial center for 1.3b Chinese. where all stateowned IPOs are coming.

Does not mean anything because you have an economy getting rich selling oil and minerals and not finished projects like Japan. China, South Korea and Taiwan.

except that they do busiess differently. they sell there intellectual power to multinationals who assembled those things in countries like China. and it is there Service economy which is not reported and thats why they have the most expensive city on Earth. New York is because of US, Tokyo because of Japan. and than How come Moscow becomes world most expensive city? u need extremely large size service sector to support this. and they have equally expensive second city Saints Petersburg.

ever thought why Samsung investing in OIL refineries, oil platforms. Moscow E-government and largest cellurlar phone supplier. there are things u dont understand.

a Moscow-based company of some 100 people, 80 of whom are engineers
Spirit is a Texas Instruments third-party software partner and has developed some 38 unique eXpressDSP-compliant DSP algorithms for TI’s C54CSt DSP. Spirit relies on the TI sales force to sell the chips and receives a per-unit royalty.

GOLDEN, Colo. — Isonics Corporation (Nasdaq:ISON), committed to the development of next-generation technology for the homeland security and semiconductor markets, has signed a technology research and development agreement with the Kurchatov Institute, Russia’s leading research and development institution. Boris Rubizhevsky, President of Isonics’ homeland security division, made the announcement.

In other words, you got an economy more similar to Saudi Arabia. And remember, your GDP is not bigger than Mexico, which actually exports finished products to fill those numbers. Without a manufacturing base, you don’t get better income distribution to the lower classes because money via resources is a matter of owning resources and you don’t use the output of labor. And you still have an extremely large sized military feeding on a budget is like what, 10 to 20 billion US?

thats why they have 45% world commercial satelliete luanchers and have three full size space lauching sites Baikonor, Plestek and new one French Guyana. and how come they dont have manufacturing base? (they produce millions of cars alone and the best known truck brand like Kamaz.) U cannot even make a Tank engine let alone aircraft engine.
and how u come to ther GDP figures and military spending. it is there secret.

Lol. China’s reserves is over a trillion and counting, and every few months, you add another 50 billion to it.

and u also enrich the same multiantionals that depnds on russian engineers. so as Chinas enrich through assembling. Russia do the same with service sector.

What makes you think that China does not have not an oil stabilization fund huh? Not to mention it has its own oil reserves and yes, its own oil resources. Not to mention that China still sits upon the largest coal and shale rock reserves in the world, which is the basis for synthetic fuel.

and where is China Oil export to make stabilization fund? they will first hook the world on uranium and later raise the price.

Moscow, 4 December: The existing deposits of natural uranium in Russia are “enough for a guaranteed supply of nuclear fuel for the next 60 years for all Russian nuclear power stations as well as nuclear power stations being built by Russian specialists abroad”, the head of the Federal Atomic Energy Agency [Rosatom], Sergey Kiriyenko, said today when addressing the Russian State Duma. “Besides, this does not even include reserves that can be obtained from fast breeder reactors,” he added
Kiriyenko noted that on 6 December a Rosatom delegation would visit Kazakhstan to “mark the joint extraction of the first kilogram of natural uranium in a festive atmosphere

The F-8IIM was demoed in Zhuhai in 1998.

think a little harder about this zhuk. all the time excuses.

Maybe you don’t know but there are other costs besides flyaway costs, and that’s why the F-22 total package is over 200 million.

from where the $200m current production figure comes from?

Double standards. The engine is GE right? Didn’t it have contributions via BAE?

Sweden has history of innovation from Bofors, Volvo, SAAB, Scania, ABB Engg, Ericson, celsiustech. what is China history?

Give me some actual stats like kill ratios.

8 of 10 engagements were won by Indians and it is in this form.

I will give you a kill ratio from one exercise: 5,0.

and what is credibility of this?

If you don’t even know this terminology, you don’t have any business here.

I just want to know how much u understand this thing or ur living in a past.

And what do you know about ground search and targeting? Backfires as strategic bombers are not meant for loiter, search, target and destroy, the cycle done entirely and autonomously.

Offcourse u dont know about what Ruaf and there methods that are uniquie only to them.

Irrelevant.

how?

Speaking of someone talking about electromagnetic weapons.

surely a person who consider buying some thing from retail store as sign of scientific achievements like routers.

Which ones? The ones Russia mothballs?

from where u get this information?

You have no idea of the ROC’s AD capabilities.

ROC is too poor comparet to South Korea and South Korea is building next generation SAM using Russain technolgy which will be more advanced than PAC-3. and ROC does not even that one. Now just imagine at what state is Russian missile technolgy that want to sell atleast PAC-3 capability.

As if you know better than the USAF decision makers.

As if these decisions are made by USAF of buying foreign allies.

More fantasy from you.

surely.

Shows your ignorance. Can the MiG31 loiter in long periods like the AWACs? Does it have all 360 degree coverage radar? How much bigger the radar is compared to a MiG-31. The AWACS can also carry much more equipment and crews to man them.

have u ever read about Ruaf A-50 operations?
u dont need 360 coverage in most situations. they have already figure this thing out.

Show me where you got the 380 billion. The figure you’re quoting is budget revenue.

$304b in foreign reserves and approximately $88b in stablization fund.
http://www.cbr.ru/eng/pw.asp?file=engpress70111_114653eng_res.htm
http://en.rian.ru/business/20070110/58838072.html

If you think Russia has a bigger surplus than China, you must be even more delusionary.

offcourse. i am delusionsary. infact u only read about China. If Russia opens itself like China to West. the investmen will be in trillions.

And manufacture for 33% of the total world output too. Gunning now for 40%

from where this figure comes from?
does it includes service sector as as service sector in most countries are bigger than industrial. and China had 1/5 of world population.

J-10 has 3 MFDs, and in addition, the two seater has 3 to 4 more MFDs on the back.

show me offical picture not speculations.

Don’t give me your experience with AWACS. China’s AWACS have been reported vectoring Su-30s since 2004.

why? Experaince of 20 AWACS and 2 export A-50E does not count?

And why are they developing ones for their own? EH? You don’t even know the RuAF, do you?

yes i dont know thats why i ask what they are developing.

All of them have big RD centers in China.

and they also big RD centers in India but level of RD is different. u havent understood that point.

Biggest celphone and telecom company now in the world is China Mobile in terms of capitalization and user base. Lenovo is the 3rd largest PC maker, and it has successfully revived the Thinkpad line.

as if Russia celluar companies are any smaller. there 200 million cell phone users which is very high penetration considering the size of population and they also own networks in other countries. and Gazprom is world Largest GAS firm so what? this has nothing to do with scientific level of countries.

Why do you think GE has a partnership with Shenyang Liming? Airbus and Boeing are subcontracting composite airframe components with Chengdu and Shenyang. The US is starting to import cars made in China, and several companies are using parts manufactured from there.

US only buy $100m of China parts. it is like price of toilets in Boeing aircrafts.
this website of Teal group consultant. kindly look around what is happening in aerospace world.
http://www.richardaboulafia.com/

show me.

what? finance.yahoo.com and just put Google stock capitalization and compare to yahoo.

By language, by genes, by cultural and ancestral heritage, he is still Chinese.

and by education he is not Chinese.

You are the one living in nana land. Motorola and Microsoft lauded the contributions of their China RD units, the latter by Bill Gates himself. IBM, HP, Dell, all have RD units in China.

Bill Gates will Praise India also but here the issue is something else. which u are not getting.

Lol, over 1 trillion foreign reserves are gathered from trade surplus that averages more than 150 billion yearly. In addition, China holds 800 billion worth of treasury bonds, Do you like to compare the relative sizes of economies with China like GDP, trade surplus, capitalization, savings rate, eh?

and do u wan to compare the debt level, populaton size, natural resources, energy and above all research skills. and why do u think Moscow surpassed Tokyo as world most expensive city despite far larger area?
and that $800b is not in addition. it is included in $1 trillion. u dont have Oil stablizaiton fund.

Lol. The Iran interest was in the early 2000s.

more confustion. Zhuk-8 was done by 2000. the point who initiated this project and for what purpose and China does not have weopons at that time for exploiting that radar

You must be an idiot to keep using flyaway prices. You’re not paying flyaway prices, you’re paying contract costs. You cannot afford 3000 F-22s in contract cost, not to mention their maintenance.

when it enters production than it is fly way price period. same like $44b for 442 F-18E. F-22 is in production and only that cost matters now. and what about longer range due supercrusie of F-22?(fuel savings, greater area coverage) where is surper crusie of F-35?

So I guess the Gripen is not indigenous, since it uses GE engine, huh? So a plane is not indigenous because it is influenced by foreign design? Lexus not indigenous because they are influenced by BMW and Mercedes Benz, huh?

Gripen is indigenous to the extent where Swedish content is involved. Toyota is old firm.

Winning once in a while and winning just about every time the planes meet are two different things. The Bison does not have a consistent superiority over the F-15. Once in a while even F-5E Aggressors manage to “shoot” an F-15 down but its not consistant, and the Aggressors often get “shot” down as well.

most of engagement were won by IAF. and it was exercise between two airforces not some in house play.

What I like to know about is the details of the wargames but no way the PLAAF would ever reveal that. In any case they appeared to have occured since the summer of 2003 until today, and there is enough data for the PLAAF to act on.

PLAAF and data give me a break.

If you don’t know what PGM means, you should excuse yourself from the forum so you won’t be a laughing stock.

seriously i want to know the meaning of PGM.

http://www.royfc.com/acft_news_old_jan1.html#08jan
“For example, during bombing at a range from the Tu-22M3 airplane, which took place after upgrade, bomb deflection was literally one meter, which speaks to the capability to assure a high precision in the destruction of targets,” V. Mikhaylov reported.
Source: 08.01.07, Vzglyad

What a joke. Iraq, Serbia and Afghanistan certainly didn’t surrender themselves from cruise missile strikes. Is any Backfire carrying antiship missiles? I’m talking of those actually certified for use, not proposals that didn’t go anywhere.

and how do u know about Backfires. capability. it is supposed to be a secret just like LPI radar of Su-34.
Irak/Serbia/Afghanistan surrendered when didnot have the means to respond. so US could carry almost 78 days of bombing and put economic squeeze.

Electromagnetic weapons? Fantasy.

surely a fantasy. it can only comes from

The whole island is defended by one of the most formidable air defenses in the world. The TK-2 has a range up to 200km, said to have boast active radar guidance, and the radar set, whose design was in partnership with Raytheon, is practically a land based AEGIS set.

and Russian bombers and weopons exercise against airdefence network that Taiwan can only dream of.

Like you have no idea of the importance of tactical air power, which even the Soviet Union had planned gobs of.

I have idea but there other ways instead of building and maintaining airbases and giving handouts to allies.

When did the missiles ever have 300km and reach Mach 6. More fantasy. Large missiles are also very poor against small maneuverable targets.

offcourse thats a fantasy thats why they are now building 500km followup with 40km height destruction and MIG-31 was never allowed to export despite offers.

Really? I doubt the radar has the same search volume, range and number of targets as an AWACS. Or even the 360 degree scanning. Furthermore, such a plane cannot loiter around for hours, while an AWACS can.

and u can build and maintain many more than few AWACS and go into action much faster and can be refuelled farther.

Russia does not have a 100b surplus every year (more fantasy from you). Thats like 150 billion in foreign reserves as a complete total in accumulation. It is China that is accumulating more than 150 billion each year, and its surplus has exceeded Japan’s and is now in the trillion. Certainly you can see which country can afford to maintain and upgrade their military.

I am looking budge surplus not foreign reserves and stabilization fund that is separate ($380b) now. i can clearly see which country can afford and maintain bigger airforce not to mention extremly subsidize fuel. (just think about revenue income from 490 IL-76 with 240 with airforce. each bomber pilot gets 100 hrs)

You get a much higher tax rev over China per PPP if you tax heavily and that affects your general economic state.

except that u have to import energy/industrial raw material and support much bigger population.

More delusional fantasy from you. The J-10 has a glass cockpit and Flankers in the PLAAF are upgraded over their Russian counterparts starting with better build quality, higher payload, and the ability to use the R-77 through a simple upgrade which the PLAAF bought in 2001. The KJ-2000 and KJ-200 uses ESA radar, and yes, the KJ-2000 is operational as it has been reported by the Taiwan media vectoring Su-30s and J-11s in exercises and surveying the Taiwan straits. In addition to that the PLAAF also now has side scanning SAR battlespace surveillance planes. China certainly has an active satellite survelilance network, as often mentioned in DoD white papers and no doubt a better communication system, since Chinese companies are reported to have installed communication systems on many countries.

J-10 does not have glass cockpit from that video and look at smoke from ealry 80s era missiles. It takes mimimun five years of exeperiance to fully expliot AWACS not even a group.and u only make it fly in 2004. China does not have anything of its own. u bought even the laser tech from russia in 1999 that now u prouldy display.

The Su-30MKK happens to be the first Russian plane that is truly multirole, which you cannot say abou the Su-24MK.

It seems u havent understood Ruaf. why would they need multirole fighter?

What? The Russians don’t have an indigenous manufacturing telecom industry. Are you manufacturing MMICs? Celphones? Internet routers?

u are living in post industrial era. have u ever heard about Knowledge based economy. Design centers?Research institutes? what would firms like Samsung(now the second biggest semiconductor), Intel , Motorola and Nokia do with out Russia.

http://www.arabnews.com/?article=89044
The interview closed by the prime minister telling me proudly that his house used to be the Russian governor’s residence when Russia ruled Finland
In contrast every word on Russia was couched in the most favorable way. Is this going to be Europe’s mood over the next decade or is it just a Finnish aberration?

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q3/nr_050812g.html
Boeing has both a Technical Research Center and a Design Center in Moscow, where Russian aerospace professional collaborate with Boeing counterparts in the United States. Hundreds of Russia’s aerospace specialists work at the Boeing Design Center in Moscow on various Boeing programs, including the 787 and 747-Large Cargo Freighter.
In addition, Boeing is serving as an advisor to Sukhoi Civil Aircraft on the development and marketing of the Russian Regional Jet

why do u think PW bought a stake in PermMotors?, Snecma with Saturn (VolgaAero),Alenia in Sukhoi , EADS in Irkut, and Boeing in everything. and public appeal for help from OAK for A350 from Airbus on dec 8.

Look who is talking. As if Russia even has a massive export toy industry of its own.

as if they really can find high paid workers for making cheap stuff.

And Yahoo was founded by a Chinese guy. so what?

Google is 5 times bigger than yahoo.
he was Taiwanese (A country who owe its existence, education and wealth directly to US) and went to US as a child unlike a person born in communist state.

Knowledge comes from the individual. If it were not for Asian immigrants and the Asian contribution, the IT industry would not be the way it is today. I have a hard time seeing Russia being a force in IT, I guess you don’t read IT magazines often enough or check the shelves in the stores.

excuse me on what planet are u living? u are looking at retail level IT. Asian has just made the cost lower. It has zero contribution as far as science goes. i am not even putting alot of stuff.

Guess who now has a trillion dollar surplus.

u dont have surplus. u have reserves and that reserves are necessity not a asset as u have to fund the buyer for ur cheap products.

They were looking for a plane that could launch the C802 airborne. I don’t need to show you certification of EL-2034, that is a merely something the PLAAF apparently tested. The bottomline remains the current PLAAF radars are not Zhuks or based on such.

except that in mid 90s there was hardly a fighter platform for airlaunched C802. and where is ur theory of Iran went now? (dustbin of history)
all the time making excuses

No doubt F-22’s unit price would come down significantly wrt JSF if more units are produced, but i dont think difference is gonna be as huge as u think.
OTOH, a few years back JSF’s flyaway unit price was usually quoted as around $35 mil.

http://specials.ft.com/ln/ftsurveys/industry/sc22322.htm
If JSF’s unit price tag exceeds $35m – little more than the cost of today’s Lockheed Martin F-16 – Pentagon planners have warned that the project may become unaffordable.
Today, it is normally said be around $50-60 million and i have seen even higher figures going up to $80-90 million for when it enters full production/operational status.

the point is F-22 price is known and is likely to come down with much larger production run. F-35 is unknown.

Utter nonsensical rhetoric. Throughout my academic career i met hundereds of Amercian research students in UK working on different projects. Does this mean they can’t conduct their reserach in America?

Or perhaps they could not get opportunity of research in there own country due to limited seats as US has vast population and foreign students.

While China is definitely trying to gain knowledge through sending their stundents abroad and probably does not have as much facilities as there should be, your comments are touching racial line.

Now this pure nonsens. u havent proved that facilities are less.

Americans/Europeans/Russian used a lot of research work originally done by Nazi scientist and built up on it. Does this mean that the latter were better scientist or what u refer to as ‘producers of knowledge’ and the reset were mere ‘consumers’?

this German thing has blown out of proportion. At best it just accelarated weopons program of US/Russia just like J-10 with foreign help.
but it didnot create culture of research and insititutions infact German war has inflicted huge men and monetary damage to USSR. they have to relocate factories to east and spread research centers through out the country later on which may not nessary best for research as scientist may not want to relocate.

That’s because not even the US can afford 3000 F-22s. For that matter, F-15s in US service only totaled in the mid hundreds.

how do figure that out. if they drop $276B F-35. they can surely afford 3000 F-22. just look at Fly away price. F-15E came very late in coldwar.

What? You don’t know what you’re talking about. The J-10 is a far more elegant design than any MiG-29. J-10s appear to consistently beat J-11s and Su-30MKKs in the PLAAF during exercises. I don’t think updated MiG-29s and Su-30s will provide you that much of an advantage once the J-10 development cycle keeps going.

I surely know what . Even MIG-21 bison has won against F-15. ur thinking does not matter nor is anything from china official mouth piece that is calling ARJ21 indigenous (cabin influenced by DC-9 with old MD-90 toolin) because u are observeing an Airforce which works on obsolete doctorine.

BS fantasy. Russia’s current bomber fleet lack precision ISR equipment and support to deal with mobile fine grained targets, and furthermore, are not equipped with their own latest PGMs, which goes to the Su-34.

from where u got this information?.
they havent even used latest Su-34 in exercises. all exericises are done with Tu-22 precision bombing. and what is meant by latest PGMs?

And how many Su-34s are in service now? I can’t see more than sixty a decade from now. The RuAF precision bombing capability is far less than what the US has against Serbia, and Taiwan is a far more formidable target than Serbia.

surely u cannot see the 19 Blackjack and 90 Bears. Taiwan will surender with first crusie missile strike. Russia has the capability to sink entire shipping in around taiwan in less than 24 hrs with Backfires. i am not even going into electromegnatic weopons.

The crews of the four missile-armed bombers that had headed northwest also acquitted themselves well. Some 2,000 km from the Vorkuta range, the leader crews launched a cruise missile each at 15-minute intervals. According to data from an A-50, which monitored the flight of the missiles, they all hit their targets.
[Video: an A-50 AWACS-type plane takes off; work stations inside]
Summary
In all, 53 sorties were flown. All flights by Tu-95MS missile-armed strategic aircraft were over a maximum range, while Tu-22M3 bombers took off with maximum payloads. Apart from long-range aviation, Su-27 and MiG-31 fighter aircraft were involved in the exercise, as were an A-50 early-warning radar aircraft and Il-22 airborne command post and Federal Security Service helicopters.

Oh, and suddenly you’re smarter than the professionals in the USAF eh?

these decisions are made far above USAF. just look at cost of prince sultan airbase.

Its only an interceptor. Its not even an aerial superiority fighter. Once the other fighters are there, it can only run. You expect bombers, AWACS and refuellers won’t be guarded? By the time it uses its radar, everyone in the hemisphere knows its location. Its an amazing waste of resource for intercepting bombers, when today, “bombers” are more likely to be fighter bombers than anything.

so those guarding fighters have 300 KM range Mach 6 BVR missiles and can Fly at Mach 2.34 at very high altitude with full load. and it is effective against all the target at all heights and speeds.
it has the radar range and volume scaning that makes AWAC irrelevant. and thats why it was denied to china in 90s. the report is there.

We know that fighters in the PLAAF are operable because they for one thing, have the budget to afford so. This is in contrast to Russia, whose effective GDP is only as big as Mexico’s.

what is the evidence that all PLAAF fighters are operable? Russia has airbases in Tajikistan,kazak, armenia, Krygystan and soon Uzbekistan. this alone shows how much forward deployment is there. and it is not GDP that matters but Tax revenue and debt. Russia has half of tax rev of China with 1/10 population and $100B surplus every year. China gov lives on borrowed money.

The RuAF could barely afford their upgrades. They chose the MKK systems for the upgrade instead of more technologically better ones because the Chinese have already paid for the expensive testing and certification process. How many Su-27SMs are being upgraded every year? I can’t see more than a dozen. Russia’s Flanker fleet is practically mothballed inside hangers and storage places while China’s is always buzzing about in exercises, some of whom can be scanned and verified by long range radars in Taiwan.

and where is PLAAF upgrades? essentially using down graded 80s era flankers and J-10 with no glass cockpit and no phased array radar anywhere in operations with borrowed technologies and no operational AWACS and with no experiance so to speak of with satellite and communication network. there Su-24 is better than ur Su-30MKK. because they use different weopons, ew and communication system.
Russia has done exercise with CIS and India (2003 Indian ocean black jack). where is ur outside exercises?

MMIC are made in fabs in China. You should read more about the telecom industry.

I have read about telecom industry. u just look US congressional hearing from late 1980s about Soviet Union.

Really? Here is a history lesson for you. Trading and playing cards was invented in China soon after paper money was invented there.

So does The Greeks and Arabs but this has nothing to do with Present day science.

Not really but the head of Intel’s elite Architectures division in charge for developing new processors was a Chinese guy for a long time. He oversaw the development from 286 to Pentium III before he retired. Oh and both ATI and nVidia are founded by Chinese.

And Google is founded by Russian . that is the biggest firm now next to Microsoft. thats not the issue.
The point is from where the knowledge came from. u show me a single transfer of knowledge from China to West. and i will show u 1 million Russian in IT alone. from South Korea/EU/Israel/US

http://www.eetimes.com/issue/fp/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=TGRBIS15GAAEUQSNDLRCKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=18309645
Austin, Texas – Aided by a key contribution from a Russian scientist who died young, Motorola Inc. is claiming to have essentially solved one of the major challenges facing magnetoresistive memories, with technology it has incorporated in 4-Mbit MRAM samples shipping now to select customers
He received his doctorate in physics from Moscow State University in 1997

why do u think SK gave $3B to Gorbi in 1990 which was a huge sum for SK at that time? China was too poor at that time doing only barter deals.

EL2034 is mentioned in Hui Tong’s page, and this is part of the Israeli proposal to upgrade the J-8IIs. AVIC is only in charge for exports and the Israeli upgrade for the J-8II is for domestic use. The reason why F-8IIM is using Zhuks because the domestic Type 1471 radar is not approved for export that time due to secrecy reasons, so it had to use a Russian radar for export planes, possibly eyeing for an Iran buy that never happened. Which is why the Zhuk equipped F-8IIM comes with an F, because that is an export plane. It is for the same secrecy reasons whey the FC-1 was originally not offered with a Chinese radar because the latter requires the PLA to clear it.

I am not looking at proposals from airshows. show me certification of El-2034 with J-8? and Nope AVIC cannot afford development of foreign radar at that time by itself and let alone certification without signed export customer. and why would Iran buy this aircraft with russian radar? what is there in this obsolete junk.

Complete what?

You should eat out ur own BS , check it out:

http://www.88yp.com/Elites.htm

Your site does not tell where these people got education and where they got research experiance?. thats why i put the intel example of prior education and experaiance. Foundation and existence US education is European.