star49It’s true, both the GE an P&W engines have been extesively overhauled, but they accumulated 4000-5000 hours before that. Moreover, many of them served in combat 1991 and 1999. Combat wear and tear is different from burning gas in operations like Deny Flight. …
i wouldnt call a month war with so many aircraft as contributing factor.
they had been overhauled three times already and most are not even in front line service.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/f100.htm
and it is time consuming process to extend the life of engine and aircraft is out of service for the portion of time instead replacement with new engine is better and quicker option.
star49As one of the posters of pointed out that goal posts have been moved since cold war. Im sure they would be moved even further in another 10 years time. I have absolutely no doubt about Russia’s ability to field something that is physically and mechanically similar to the JSF or F22 in the next 10 years. But would it be similar to present day F-22 or to the one we are likely to see in 10 years time???
If Russian aerospace scientists and project leaders cannot predict what is relevant in 10 years time in there own field than they are not scientist. Su-27 was almost match to F-15C with higher thrust, IRST, offboresight missiles.
U have to look at other factors. Russia produce far more scientist per year than anyother western country and that includes US. Research is very cheap.
this is from EADS cochairman and Russians dont have that much experiance in Civilian field.
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=basicIndustries&storyID=nL1341755&imageid=&cap=
All the industrial partnerships with the Russian aeronautic and space world, whose skills are well known, are important for EADS and essential … but I am not convinced that we need, in order to develop this partnership, to change the board of EADS or its Franco-German shareholder pact,” Lagardere said.But later asked specifically about Russia’s 5 percent stake in EADS, Arnaud Lagardere answered: “I don’t see why we should protect ourselves from Russian interests. Developments and the partnerships with the Russians are for us very important and we will continue to develop them.”
star49I think that’s a confusion. This ANG replacement program is a limmited one and concerns only units in Iowa, Ohia and Indiana. These A/Cs are blk. 42 and these have space for a larger engine, albeit there were fitted with smaller P&W 100. Some details about the program are in CodeOne: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2002/articles/oct_02/tulsa/index.html
OTOH, there are 30-20 years old F 15s and F 16s that still have thier originally engines, even if (in some cases) the engines were kit-upragded.
BTW, it’s naive to believe that an AF 31 is 3 times less costly than an GE 129/P&W 229…
so here another one from GE life extension about half million an engine . why u need life extension after 15 year service at most.
http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/military/military_20050523.html
and i dont think there that many F-15/16 more than 20 years old in frontline service without expensive engine overhaul.
and u are looking at commercail export price of AL-31.
star49that 8000 hr life doesnot seem right. even National guards is replacing the engines from 1988 F-16 batch. hardly 4000 hr life at most. and Western engine cost atleast 3 times.
star49I know there is extra spare engines for each aircraft consignment but it is hardly 10 to 20% extra. it does not cover the whole fleet.
IN got only 8 engines extra with 16 MIG-29K. only good good for 4 aircraft.
star49132.2KN roughly equals to 13,800 KG which is the thrust of Saturn intermediate engine before 117S. and AL-31FN was designed by saturn.
Why are you asking for the engines of the 1990’s Flanker? We already mentioned that the 180 engines should be spares for the most part.
so for past 10 to 15 years they would have used 2000 to 3000 hrs. so how it matches with 900 hr that Pit mentioned?
star49The 13,2t figure comes from the AL-31FMN-1 being sold to China for the J-10. Same engine core, just different gearbox location plus Klimov nozzle.
Oh and yet these 1992/1996 planes are still flying and operational, so they must have been receiving engines.
Lol. Salut is not just a design bureau, it manufactures its own engines. Engines for the J-10s are all manufactured by Salut in a special facility south of Moscow, and not in the Urals like UMPO. YOu must be referring to Saturn as the design bureau, and Saturn-Lyulka and Salut are not the same entity, pretty much have feuded with each other over the J-10/AL-31FN and the FM engine core issues. And that’s why Salut and Saturn/UFA/UMPO has a major tiff, each in fact proposing competing upgrades for the PLAAF engines. Because UMPO has no access to the FM core design, and has designed and proposed something called 1147 for the Indians to upgrade their AL-31FP cores.
but show me from where this 13.2 tons figure comes from or u just invented it. Salut was a factory but created its own design bureau later on. and China made only contract with them. and where are the engines for 1990s Flanker.?
UMPO is irrelevant to this issue.
star49That’s funny because they said the FM1 core for the J-10 engine is 13.2kg. We like to make sure there is no article typographical errors. Salut does not speak for UMPO’s side of the contract, and I take it only 20 of the 100 engines contracted to them are supplied. That means just how many of the 80 engines that were contracted to UMPO has been delivered.
from where this 13.2ton figures come from. and u made a contract with Salut (which is now a design bureau) which in turn gave to umpo. and any way those in 1992/1996 planes need alteast 100 engines and there is no evidence anything is supplied for them untill this point.
star49lol, you really believe that, huh?
Pit’s service life numbers sound about right for the AL-31F engines.
I only believe on logic not on believe.
so show me where PLAAF ordered replacement engines for Su-27SK/UBK untill this point. and it is already near 10 to 15 year service. each FM series has 3000 hr life thats why they say 30% decrease in life cycle cost due to differential between MTBO and replacement.
IAF $286m Saturn license is based on 3 sets of engines for 140 aircraft. approximately 2000 hr life for engine and 6000 for aircraft.
star49http://www.salut.ru/news_.html
FM1-1 is 13.5 ton. and in 2006 only 20 some thing of 180 engines are supplied.
star49lol, in 6 years, you will need to buy a new AL-31. we got the su-30mkk in 2001 and we are already ordering 180 AL-31s to replace the old engines. They got the 3000 hour lifetime, but it’s funny that China never got an AL-31 that lasted close to that.
they are not for upgrades. they are for new built J-11. upgrade for old Su-27SK will come this year.
star493. Overhaul 2000 hours: remove engine and ship to depot where the case is split and out-of-tolerance parts are replaced.
The design life of the F110 and F100 is 8,000 hours.
Most aircraft are obsolete and retired by 8000 hrs.
more than a billion dollar is required to sustain 3200 F100 engine for USAF. some thing like $300,000 per engine per year. In 10 years u already reach the new AL-31 price.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/f100.htm
star49It is more like this
AL-31FM= 12,800 kg
AL-31FM-1= 13500 Kg
AL-31FM-2= 14,200 Kg
AL-31FM-3= 15,500 Kg.
the last one along with 117s are intermediate engines for 5th generation fighter after they will switch to new design.
star49that how they define PAK FA. Artificial Intelligence, Supercruise, low obvservability in all radar wave.
http://www.royfc.com/news/jan/1906jan01.html
What combat and flight characteristics should the fifth generation airplane possess?— The generation to which this airplane belongs depends not on how the air force commander-in-chief positions it, but is dependent on its correspondence to a number of objective criteria. In the first place, this is the integration of the aircraft’s electronics. That is, the pilot doesn’t keep track of the instrument displays himself, but artificial intelligence does it for him in part which gives an overall picture of what is happening. And it even may suggest, for example, which targets need to be attacked first. A second parameter is the ability to fly for a long time at supersonic speed (the so-called “cruising” speed.) And, finally, one can name low-observability in all wave regions as an additional characteristic.
— That is, is it a question of Stealth ((in English)) technology?
— Yes, precisely
star49LOL maybe they should have shot MI3 with Tom flying in and between building in St. Petersburg instead of Shanghai?
Come to think of it hollywood is more realistic than you are! LOL
Hong kong is not big in size but wholly developed. Until St. Petersburg’s realestate price rises to roughly the same level of HK, Taipei, Tokyo, NY, Shanghai, it is in no way comparable.
so tall buildings make a city advanced and real estate expensive?.
Palaces, Museums, Gardens, Art and Scientific institutes have no relevance.
It is Vince of North due to more than 300 bridges on water ways.
Ever thought where Alfred Nobel got his Chemistry education. the list of Mathematician/Physict for past three centuries is too long to count.some of them are greatest the human kind has ever produced. u can make alot of cities with tall buildings but u cannot create another St Petersburg.
and u cannot dispute the survey report.
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