star49C’mon it’s common knowledge they have everything to fear.
they have absolutely nothing to fear from West. there only fear is that 1 billion muslims who are blindly following there ideology will stop believing the nonsense that they represents.
There are no bigger hypocrites.
Nic
that i agree. but it is both ways.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/11/11/10081685.html
star49Which is besides the point, you are talking gibberish about something which is unrelated to the original statement.
It is cleary related to Original statement. u stated that manufacturer is trying to sell the radar not the government. but i have proved u wrong on this one. and i can even more on this subject.
Total capability in terms of the systems in question, which define the aircraft. Engines, what would Russia prefer- get a market, or wait for china to make its own and refit those aircraft, come what may?
so what is more dangerous 50 or so MKI or 500 J-10 backed by equal number of other Flankers?. now dont start that MKI has got some special weopons.
Those SAMs are not offensive weapons. They are defensive. Try to understand the difference. And Russia knows them inside out.
200KM SAM is not defensive weopon. u can hit inside the other country and u can use the radar for much longer range for situational awarness for battlefield advantage. and Russia also knows much more about MKI.
You think.
pure rational business sense.
star49Have you even read the article? It spoke of Bars as a future for the MKK. There were several other reports in the vein.
i have told that there several exhibitions in Zhuhai but there is no BARS/MKI mentioned. they havent put in any exhibition since 1996 but they put it for Malaysia in LIMA. so RMAF got it. they cant dispaly anything which isnot for export.
Look at the sum total of capability and access offered.
what is total capability? selling hundred of engines to power foreign aircraft on which u have no control on weopons/radar/avionics is much more dangerous than selling one off MKI on which russia already knows every thing.
Once again, you demonstrate your inability to understand. SAMs dont threaten Russia directly.
how? after all they are border countries. any degradation of airdefence network is direct threat not indirect.
You are mistaken. They bring all sorts of products to drum up support and interest. Some items even go forward for negotiation, till Govt’el problems crop up.
nope. that is old style of doing business. show something and sell some thing else.
star49Learn to read. There were several reports speculating about the Bars to the PLAAF; this was merely one of them.
they hasnt brough MKI to any exhibition. even there is no mention of Irkut. only Sukhoi. so where is report?
The MKI.
it is just one off product China may not be interested in this. there several others like 636 submarines.
SAMs are defensive weapons.
it is the missile/radar technology that goes with it. didnt russia airdefence network based on these sams. China can surely produce countermeasures against them.
Says who? The orgs demonstrate a lot of stuff. But then Rosoboronexport decides who gets what, even India. Ask someone what happened to the Smerch-M purchase and for that matter, even the Igla-S.
they will not bring anything to exhibition which they dont want to sell period.
India may have problem with obtaining TOT or price issues but it does not automatically translate that the same will happen to any other country.
star49Authentic Chinese article. Hmmm. Like the kind you quote?
Su-27/30 Family: ‘Flanker’ In The 21st Century” by Thomas Andrews, INTERNATIONAL AIR POWER REVIEW, Spring 2003, is a far more reputable source than most junk one finds on bbs.
this is not a source but a opinion.
Please dont be stupid. Your excitable nature apart, do think it through. It has nothing to do with Indians or Pakistanis or Martians. It is plain common sense. If India and Russia shared a border, it would also be treated similarly. Russian firms may be willing to sell, but lets see if china ever gets them. cheers.
even with ur border theory. there is no proof that India gets better equipment than China. u can start from 4th generation Nuclear reactor to S-300PMU-2. to joint exercises with ruaf AWACS not export.
they cannot put anything on the exhibit floor without government approval afterall it is paid by government.
http://www.rusarm.ru/roe_eng/en_news/en_pr_rel/en_p_r_06_10_30ce.html
The Russian exhibition, displayed by the Rosoboronexport Corporation
star49no they cut off because Ukraine play with US like Georgia play with US, Russia will attack by gas.
Nope thats not the reason. they cutoff because current russian leadership knows that they can squeeze europe because they have china economic support.
with neighbor like that make you worried yes.
offcourse u should be worried. the day russia become democratic in western sense. the winds of democracy will come on china door step . u will not get anything even from central asia.
so you do not think Chinese plane is more western?
so you think J-10 and FC-1 lookl ike MiG 29 and Su-27? SD-10 look like R77? maybe you eat too much children again.[/QUOTE]
why should J-10/FC-1 look like MIG-29/Su-27.? those are 70s era twin engine fighters. the other single engine fighter taking into account present day reality.
star49They’ve tested the Al-41F1 on a FLANKER and it’s slated to be the powerplant for the new Su-35.
and that is project 117S. which is not salyut product.
star49yeah they can do. if Ukraine join NATO, do you think they will only buy American or France aircraft?
so why US/EU will allow them to joint NATO with all security gurantees in first place if they dont follow them.
no, they will want to keep theyre aviation industry but try to make it western conformed like An-70 with western equipment. Partnership with China can maintain aviation industry and save money by doing joint progject.
It is not in long term interest of Ukraine to have technical cooperation with china. infact i can even say that gas cutoff last year is due to China.
they can have partnership with Boeing/EADS.
Many Chinese airplane now have some western stuff and is based on western design.
I dont see any Chinese plane with western stuff or influenced by western design. starting from J-5 and ending at J-11. some are copy, some are license and some have Russian consultancy. this from technical cooperation point of view.
Speaking about development prospects of Russian-Chinese military-technical cooperation, he noted that the work with China is thoroughly pre-planned. “Our Chinese colleagues and we meet on the level of the intergovernmental military-technical cooperation commission once a year to analyze the state of our cooperation and prospects for next year,” he said
He did not disclose cooperation volumes, saying only that they are quite large
Federal Military Technical Cooperation Service deputy head Alexander Denisov
FC-1 you see, can be use with western radar like Pakistan want. it is easy to make it nato capatomble
NATO compatibility does not mean just in equipment. if u get the point.
star49for peace time, FC-1 will be more practicle because it is cheaper to operate. It is like Gripen!
but no i was thinking cooperation on this one here
u cannot sell FC-1 to Ukraine. and if Ukraine joins Nato than all military cooperation is cuttoff to PRC.
star49You’re obviously ignorant of the AL-41F1.
nope. salyut is just a factory and now have there own way of engine modification to AL-31.
http://www.royfc.com/news/apr/1404apr02.html
Saturn’s solution In the summer of 2003, the winner became known in the tender for the development of the engine for the fifth generation fighter – NPO Saturn. Answering a question of which role in the new engine program will be allotted to Salyut and the Ufa Motor Production Association, Yuriy Lastochkin said: “They may take part in the financing of this program and in the role of component suppliers
star49Or not. China has no Al-41.
Al-41 is no longer associated with Salyut.
based on my own talks with several russian arms design people – from phazotron, NIIP, klimov, salyut and a few others
talking with these people does not prove anything. why would they jeopardize there own sales prospects by showing better product to rival.
star49There were many reports of the Bars being available to the PLAAF too, ultimately nothing came of them. I daresay the same will happen with the Irbis. NIIP and Phazatron couldnt care a damn as to what they sell to China as long as the money flows in, the Russian Govt is much more restrictive and often intervenes to prevent the latest stuff from going to China.
there are no reports of Bars to Plaaf but it will be quite ironic if they do sell Irbis after perfecting Bars for ten years with IAF.
star49LOL!
You have browsed these forums long enough to have been ‘educated’, if you still share these flanker/mig fan boy fantastical views then there is no point in explaning anything more to you in relation to the F-22. The brochure stats for the follow on R-37 claim its range will be +- 300km if you choose to believe them. I think you are getting confused with the KS-172 which again supposedly has a range of about 400km. Both these missiles are intended to down AWACS type aircraft and not fighters.
u are confusing R-37 with KS-172. now where it written that R-37 is for AWACS. infact AGAT the seeker manufacture has posted 44 mile range against fighter size target. R-37 for MIG-31 and 810 are part of Ruaf state defense order. KS-172 is just trial ballon for export.
The AIM-54, R-33 were both intended for much larger less maneuverable targets, hence the limited success of the 54 against fighter size targets when used by the US. This will be the case with the R-37 and KS-172, perhaps why the Russians have developed and continued to develop the R-77, the Europeans have with the Meteor and the Americans with the AMRAAM; these are intended to down fighter type targets.
u are confusing 3 decades old missiles with today and future.
For the airplane of the fifth generation Vimpel is developing ! new “item 810” on its base complying with requirements of placement in internal compartments of the carrier.
Among the new technological solutions implemented during development of this missile is use of the solid-fuel jet engine with a two-impulse thrust program and regulated pause, as well as use of the energy unit with duration of work increased to 360 seconds. Along with optimization of the aerodynamic configuration this allows achievement of big launch ranges in all altitudes including the small ones, as well as the maximum altitude for killing high-speed target reaching 40 kilometers
What utter rubbish. MKI out-performs Su-34 as a fighter, faster more maneuverable, better acceleration, supersonic performance; while the MKI also retains a decent amount of fuel, in a lighter smaller airframe.
so 3 ton lighter Su-27SK (with smaller frontal) is better in AA than MKI according to ur weight criteria. Su-34 is a theater bomber integrated with early warning network of ruaf and it will attack the source of threat like airbase of MKI with long range standoff weopons unhindered by MTCR regulation for export fighters.
star49. Yes, but in this case, we can say that if the Su 34 is 5th gen A/C by the Russain criteria, then the F 22 is well into the 6th gen. 😀
Su-34 fifth generation title does not depend on stealth alone. and since russian claim they can deal with stealth. so F-22 becomes 4th generation fighter. u cannot develop missiles for some thing which u dont see. just the R-37 follow up will have more than 450 Km range.
Vzlyet, No. 5, 2006, pp. 32-35
. High technical characteristics of the future models will enable airplanes of the fifth generation to receive stable air superiority over JSF and F-22 airplanes. Gennady Sokolovsky, General Designer of Vimpel, says, “They are developed in the directions of use of advanced technical solutions in configuration, power plants, homing and warhead systems.”
I am sure u understand the meaning of very large and it is two way street.
http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/28.html?id_issue=11620651
“Our military-technical cooperation is very large. The prime minister has set the task of broadening our civilian contacts. This is absolutely right, and I instruct the government to give this issue very close attention,” Putin told Cabinet members on Monday
Because IMO the 34 is heavier and A-G specialised; so in A-A is no contest at least un maneuvrability, acceleration, between the 34 and the
u are again in deep denial. Su-34 is autonomous aviation complex (not fighter)
MKI cannot even see Su-34 let alone shooting it down.
Su-34 has special wings for low altitude flight and has greater fuel so it can catch MKI if it chose to run.
star49the airframe of the JF-17 does look primitive compared to the J-10 or any other serious domestic oriented design. small wings with high loading arent suited much to A2A role.
3D TVC is pretty serious upgrade to single engine fighter and will put it at par with more advance designs in A2A.
avionics & weapons come and go but the basic airframe limitations always remain. fuel, drag, range, manouver…..
2.3 ton fuel is supporting 6.3 ton fighter at moment which compares favourably with 3.3 ton fuel and 8.5 ton F-16C with more drag of raised canopy.
as a replacement for the A-5, J-7 it is ok…. I guess thats why Pak is going for both J-10 and F-16 to shore up the higher end of spectrum.
it looks more like light and medium weight difference rather than technolgy.
Sign In
