Please read above.

We are not discussing military doctrine here, but about the quality of manpower specifically military aviation when oppressive regimes stifle the creativity and humanity of their people.

where did i said military doctorine? I merely referred to Atheletes, Scientist and engineers. East communist produce far more and far more capable than Free West by wide margin.

You are quoting history twisted to suit your fancy. I believe you answer the questions you raise. Why did they go to Israel or other countries from the east communist block?
Regards

They travelled from East to West because World monetary Unit was not Rouble where Governments can generously finance development of luxuries of lives and support standard of living. It does not mean that these people were retarded individuals or there brains were less developed than the people born in free West as u seem to imply.

As a rule I would fully agree that pilot quality has more to do with training and A/C than politics behind his/her government. The majority of people are usually apolitical until election time in a democracy when they have the opportunity to elect a government best suited to run their country. But when we talk in the context of totalitarian ideology-driven regimes, only the most totalitarian of the ideologues there can move forward and occupy decision-making posts. Hence the basic requirement to rise in society or to aspire for any office, especially to become a fighter pilot, would be to be a rabid ideologue or pretend to be one because no other way can one rise to positions of power in such regimes. Thus politics is not limited to the government, but rather a part of the individual himself in such regimes. Such ideology is thus inculcated into children at a very young age and I would be very surprised if these children grow up without personality flaws that would show up at some time or the other especially if they go on to fly combat aircraft.

People end up becoming cannon fodder for such regimes.

Regards

personality flaws? that will show up in combat.

how come CIS/Eastern Eu always wins more Olympic. medals than combined Free West. most of scientist and successful people in free world are born in the communist countries. i have yet to find second generation decent scientist born in free world. even u trace the origins of Israel population most of it will go towards the east communist bloc.
And Soviet Union/Russia if apply doctorine of overhelming force against very advanced free countries like Scandanvian or Japan or any other beside US. the result will be the same as US vs Irak. it all depends on how u apply that doctorine. there are other examples middleast wars but there were mismatch of weopons and in some cases aircrafts of different generations.

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Depends. Money invested in arms is normally wasted in money for development.

where it is written in agreement that Algeria will pay from its own pocket? that is in addition to debt writeoff benefit. u read this whole article and will understand it will be consumer in west who will pay the price for this arms.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20060315/44370983.html
The Russian-Algerian gas agreement is a major step for this North African country towards joining the future cartel of gas exporters. Since Europe views it as Russia’s major rival in its gas market, this step will make the future gas alliance supra-regional, and will consolidate the positions of all producers at the talks with consumers. Russia’s G8 Presidency makes it an obvious leader in this still informal international forum. Analysts will see the Algerian visit of President Putin and its oil and gas results in the context of a would be gas OPEC under Russia’s strong influence.

Algeria’s GP is about 60 to 70 bn USD. So this deal worth 3.5 bn $ will take if stretched over 5 years about 0.7 bn USD a year or 1% of their annual GP. That is comparable to the annual costs of OIF for USA. However, it is questionable if a country like Algeria can afford such a deal without jeopardising some other things. Just to put it into perspective: It would be like Germany spending 25 bn USD a year for additional defense (or 125 bn USD in 5 years). That is double the money spend now.

it is in the article how they are going to finance. they will get money from digging the ground for Oil and Gas. so no hard work of populatin involved. offcourse there is better ways spending Oil money but than u dont get the investmensts and technolgy in Oil sector from big russian companies. it is win situation for all the parties provided they can manage the complex deal. and
-SMT is lower end of than -MKA which is more advanced and could carry heavier and longer range weopons.

In the context of the arms deal, the scheme is likely to be as follows: Algeria gives a Russian company access to an oil- and gas-rich region, with the proceeds split between the producer and the Algerian government who is bound to immediately transfer the revenues to the UAC as payments for the aircraft which Russians make totally on their own.

those cockpits with mechanical backup are old philosphy. and if LCA MFDs are that good it should be implemented in this fighter. even there size is smaller 6*8.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=643191&highlight=mig-29k#post643191

Vladimir Barkovsky, director of the A.I. Mikoyan design bureau, said that the MiG-29K presents generation 4++ fighter. The fighter has a “glass” cockpit (without backup electromechanical systems), engines with the FADEC system, digital remote control system, open architecture of the onboard hardware with a multiplex bus, multimode radar with up-to-date structure and signal processing system, new optic-electronic station, helmet-mounted sighting system and ground-based flight tasks complex.

The information field of the cockpit includes three multifunctional LCDs. The MiG-29KUB fighter will be equipped with seven LCDs. (…) The dimensions of the display are 152×203 mm; resolution – 1,024×768. Givi Dzhangzhava, president of Technocomplex said, “This is an up-to-date complex. It lets pilots find small targets and aim with high precision.” The fighter will also be equipped with an enhanced computer and four-channel multiplex links. The cockpit will be adapted for using night vision goggles. The new wide-screen indicator on the windshield features very high brightness, which let’s the pilot use it for aiming in daylight and at night

Star49’s astounding econimical logic is – simply astounding!! Go check out the extensive irrigation system in India’s agricultural heartland and you will perhaps get an idea of how developed it is. Inspite of all challenges, our agricultural produce is growing from year to year.

where did i say that India does not have an irrigation system? India certainly has good irrigation system that feeds its 1.1b population but u cannot claim higher growth in GDP in presence of bad moonson. i have problem with that claim.

The one figure most of the posters here are hiding is the extent of losses in China’s weak and corrupt banking system. If I recall correctly, China put a number of $900 billion for this. So think about this when you guys go around advertising “mine is 3 times bigger than yours”. Your “hidden losses” are going to cripple future growth unless you can continue to borrow. China’s banking system losses are several times more than India’s. One of India’s biggest advantage over other nations is her excellent and well-developed financial sector – banks, financial institutions and stock market. These institutions provide easy access to Indian industry to capital for growth.

i dont know that much chinese banking system. but it is all relative.
India has good financial system but it does not mean that Growth is not depended on borrowing. the more Public-Private borrowing the more growth. so unless u have debt figures for each year u cannot put only growth figure.

Just as the SU-30 MKI is superior to the MKK, so is Indian aerospace industry superior. Just making cheap Mig-21 clones does not make China advanced in aerospace. Like Harry has listed, India has developed several aircraft. And development of several more is continuing. The MKI has several Indian technologies which the MKK cannot get (mission computer, RWR, etc.).

certainly MKI is more technically advanced fighter but it shows more money and time spent on developing it. and it proves that India is not lagging China just because of money. there are other things involved in aviation development.

I will accept that China has made tremendous progress. I praise China for that. However, some posters display their typical arrogance when they say that India is a non-entity and is not discussed in Chinese media. Well, anybody heard the story of “the tortoise and the Hare”? You may not have since your media is state-controlled. I will help you understand this if you so desire. Ignore us at your own peril.

I would advise you to check out AWST’s comprehensive database on the tremendous expansion in India’s civil aviation industry. It may help you to appreciate India more.

i have always appreciated slow and steady progress of India. and frankly u dont need democracy to practice capitalism. and coldwar result between US-USSR does not prove that capitalizm has won but there were policy mistakes from one side that give undue advantage to the other side to begin with.

Also, most importantly, India believes in peaceful-coexistence. India has never started a war against any of its neighbours. Pakistani Generals have acknowledged this in recent times. It is not for nothing that Sri Lanka wants to join with India in a common confederation.

i certainly agree India believes in peaceful coexistence and making money

Something seems to be going right in India or we wouldn’t be having an 8 % growth rate or adding the highest number of mobile users in a month in the world or having the highest number of Billionaires in Asia (when even 10 years ago , even thinking such a thing could be blasphemous). Heck, this is not even the start, if you notice our population profile, our fastest growth will occur in the 2015 and later period when the maximum number of working Indians will hit the workforce. For all it’s faults no one in India would want to live in a regime where people are run over by tanks or forced to move at a moments notice in the name of advancement. If we can have a growth rate of 8+ % preserving our rights without purging millions, we’ll be pretty happy.

So people, don’t worry, have curry 🙂 The LCA will come when it comes, heck it’s nearest competitor still has a foreign engine ,internet poster’s claims not withstanding .

PS. Google(dont be evil except when your in ……) spell rocks…….

India growth is still dependent on good farm weather. so u cannot claim 8% growth rate in bad moonson season. second amount of defence budget of any country completely depends on Government revenue. so it does not matter how much GDP growth is but how that is achieved that is the key question.
so u cannot claim that is very small percentage of GDP when Indian government has to borrow $70b just to finance its budget. ur nearest compitator in economic size is Russia which has similar GDP but twice defence budget (including interior ministry) and $50b of budget surplus. so two countries having similar growth rates and similar size GDP doesnot mean that they are equal.

who said any thing about delivery schedules?…..i said we GOT those shipments…..and you know as well as i do during evaluations n tests NO CONTRACTS are signed

u cant get shipments without contract. which company in world will allow it ship its BVR missile to integrate into local fighter. this thing is alot more complicated than u think.
have PAF ever evaluated AIM-120 or it is just buying based on paper specification.

just look at how F-16s are going……a few weeks back…it was PAF is purshase MORE USED vipers n a few ( upto 30) NEW BLOCK 50 Vipers…….today it is UPTO 60 NEW BLOCK 50/52 ( weapons package not finalized yet) and 25 USED Vipers……i wouldnt call that any specs hav been finalized….if u will….i cant see how

60 block 50 based on what source? news in media are for public consumption.
and how difficult is finalizing weopon specification. F-16 has only one or two important weopons and thats it. funny u change subject from aircraft specification to weopon package.

as for JF….all weapons intergration will be done by AWC n PAC at minhas…..not in china……

which weopons are ur referring to? there is big difference between past and future. and u will know this during flight tests.

as for the claim that pakistan has openly said 1st 50 will use chinese avionics and radars…..now it just wouldnt make sense if half of you fleet of JF-17s are using chinese avioincs n radar…n the rest western systems……would it?……

surely it is that easy to buy TOT from two different sources and do the integration.

ab the EriEye……PAFs specs asked for an AEW config….not the AEW&C systems which the EriEye originally is…..

now that is laughable. Erieye is AEW to begin with and u can upgrade to include command and control but more important is communication system.