star4905/09/05
India OKs Russian Royalty Demands
Rights Issue Has Stalled Arms Deals
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI
India has agreed to protect Russian defense firms’ intellectual property rights, some five months after Russian President Vladmir Putin warned that failure to do so would put future arms deals at risk.
The agreement came during a late-April visit to Moscow by Ajay Vikram Singh, India’s permanent defense secretary. Singh said the governments now will work out terms for future, specific technology and military design programs.
Among the accord’s conditions will be provisions intended to make sure no technology is transferred to third countries, and royalty payments to Russia for work performed on Russian-built weapons by other countries.
The issue of intellectual property rights is one reason why no Indo-Russian arms deal has been signed in more than a year, Putin told Indian officials during a December visit here.
A diplomat of the Russian Embassy in New Delhi said the accord is intended to ensure that joint and Russian high-end defense technologies are not leaked to third countries.
Singh said India has never made such transfers.
An Indian Defence Ministry official said Russia is also worried that it will lose its near-monopoly on arms sales here as India increasingly makes its own weapons or looks to Israel and other exporters.
The Russian diplomat conceded that the Indian market is large but would not confirm that his government was worried about losing its position.
Singh said that during his visit to Moscow, Russian officials complained that India was buying spare parts and support from other former Soviet republics. Much of India’s arsenal was purchased in the 1970s and 1980s from the Soviet Union. Many of the other republics have approached India with offers to support armored vehicles, transport aircraft, war ships, submarines and air defense systems.
For example, India is tempted by Poland’s offer to upgrade Pechora air defense systems, many of which are lying unused for lack of upgrades and parts. Similarly, India wants Israel to upgrade its Tu-142 maritime surveillance aircraft, an effort stalled by Russian demands for royalties on the work.
Singh said the Indian government has politely told Moscow to direct its complaints to the other republics.
He also said India would buy more Russian weapons only if they offer the best deal on cost and technology, Singh said. Defense planners are pushing the government to look to more sophisticated arms-makers than the Russian firms.
Nevertheless, Indian Defence Ministry sources said India will sign an agreement providing royalty payments and naming Russia as its preferred supplier. The sources said India is still too dependent on Russian gear to refuse.
India is desperate to replace its maritime surveillance aircraft, and hopes to do so with Russian Tu-22 Backfire bombers. Moscow will not agree to lease them to India, however, until the intellectual property rights issue is settled.
The Backfires will also be used in their bomber role. India also wants to buy two to four used Russian Il-30 maritime patrol aircraft.
India also is awaiting Russia’s approval to get Smerch multibarrel rocket launchers, lease a nuclear submarine, buy air defense systems, upgrade other air defenses and acquire spare parts.
And with U.S. contracts at a similar standstill, New Delhi welcomes the opportunity to get some deals moving again, the Indian Defence Ministry official said.
The accord also will open the door to Indo-Russian work on developing a combat aircraft and air defense systems, the official said. The two countries have already jointly developed the BrahMos anti-ship supersonic cruise missile, but no agreement has been reached about selling it to third countries.
Officials with Rosoboronexport, Russia’s state-owned arms selling agency, refused to comment May 5.
But a source close to the company predicted that the agreement would be signed this year.
“There is progress,” the source said. “Russia’s persistence to have India respect intellectual property rights on Russian products and developments is bearing fruit and is in line with an understanding reached by the two countries last December.”
The source said that the new agreement would be crucial for new joint programs such as the development of combat aircraft.
“We have initiated it because without this agreement, it would have been difficult to start large projects like the fifth-generation fighter,” he said.
He said Russia is also keen to see India respect its intellectual property rights when employing other countries to upgrade its products.
A defense analyst here cautioned India against pledging to restrict its purchases to Russian weaponry and equipment. Such a pledge might harm the Indian defense forces, Nitin Mehta said.
star49WASHINGTON (Marke****ch) — The Pentagon has approved two missile sales to Pakistan valued at $226 million in total, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said Friday.
The agency notified Congress of two potential foreign military sales to Pakistan: $180 million in Harpoon Block II missiles and $46 million in AIM-9M-1/2 Sidewinder misiles.
“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that continues to be a key ally in the global war on terrorism,” the defense agency said in describing both deals.
The Harpoon missiles will be used to upgrade Pakistan’s navy and reduce the risk of hitting non-combatant targets. Boeing Co. (BA) and Delex Systems Inc. are the principal contractors, the defense agency said.
The Sidewinder missiles will allow Pakistan’s air force to fly armed surveillance aircraft during missions along its western border, a capability it currently lacks, the defense agency said. Raytheon Co. (RTN) is the prime contractor
star492007 will see the first 8 FC-1/JF-17s in Pakistan. 2008 the first sqn of the PAF may become operational. The last of 150 ordered will be delivered in 2015, when all runs well.
So the JF-17 program becomes a yardstick for the Tejas program. I will not be surprised to see both fighters (IAF and PAFones ) be equipped with GE-F404 engines at first.
PAF will not based two of its main fighters from same source. F-16 will more goes towards strike role in future and FC-1 for air to air.
star49Okay, now that our Pakistani forum members have agreed that the “joint” in the JF-17 is not a serious title and that the FC-1 is basically a CAC show with PAC playing a “learn and copy” role, we can move on. Phew, it took hundreds of posts for people to admit the most logical and obvious conclusion.
Anyway, as to the press conference today, it cracks me up to see that PAF/PAC officials use every opportunity to say – “Ours is bigger than India’s” – Is it some kind of complex?
The plane doesn’t have a radar, avionics and missile and this guy talks of a superior BVR ability than India!
CAT-1 – You asked me about bombast and bluster that I noted a few posts above. This is an example.
So what is so difficult to comprehend about superior BVR capabilitylof this jet. it is very unllikely that PAF bvr is inferior to any Indian and they will certainly not tell you about this. PAF knows alot about them(r-27 and r-77) through China and ukraine. infact Ukraine is willing for joint production of r-27 with pakistan. india bought 400 r-27 from ukraine in 2003-04.
star49*giggle giggle*
So you mean to say that the democratically elected government in just for namesake in your country and they have no clue abt their own armed forces? which basically means that the military is rogue army with no one to control it and it on its own and even invades a foreign country . :p
*giggle giggle*
Democracy is not a holy cow that you cannot slaughter it on time of chosing
Who gives a rats ass to what he thinks?
than what is this. Isnt it whinning about small things :diablo:
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/may/03arms.htm
Russian firm in secret arms deal with Pakistan
May 03, 2005 23:18 IST
A Russian company is supplying Pakistan with sensitive defence technology to “blind” smart weapons guided by the Global Positioning System without an official agreement between the two governments, military industry sources said.
This is seen as a possible violation of Russia’s export control norms.
The Russian company VTF, affiliated to Scientific-Research Institute of Telecommunications in the city of Voronezh is supplying the generators for jamming GPS receivers of the smart weapons to Pakistan, according to the local military industry sources.
Pakistan wanted the sensitive technology to protect its key military installations. Pakistani company Trillium Pakistan (Pvt) Ltd is involved in the deal with VTF.
VTF’s representatives have frequently visited Pakistan to negotiate the supplies of GPS jammers and radio-interception and control systems used in electronic warfare, defence industry sources told PTI.
Russian GPS jammers first surfaced two years back in Iraq when many US smart weapons missed their targets during massive strikes on key installations of Saddam Hussein’s regime, causing a row between Moscow and Washington.
In a bid to tighten Russia’s export control regime and hand over its charge to the military from the civilian authorities, Russian President Vladimir Putin last week appointed his close ally Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov as the chairman of the State Export Control Commission.
star49Pentagon moves to sell Pakistan anti-ship missiles
Jim Wolf (Reuters)
Washington, May 7, 2005|04:23 IST
The Pentagon notified congress on Friday of a proposed sale to Pakistan of 40 air-launched and 20 ground-launched Harpoon Block II anti-ship missiles and related materials valued at up to $180 million.
Pakistan, a key ally in the US-declared war on terrorism, plans to use the equipment to modernise its existing Harpoon missile capability, the announcement said.
The Pakistani Navy already has AGM-84 Block I air/surface/subsurface launch capability, it said.
“The modernisation will enhance Pakistan’s legitimate self-defense capability,” the Pentagon told congress, which has 30 days to move to block any such government-to-government arms sale.
The sale would not affect the basic military balance in the region, the notice said.
“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that continues to be a key ally in the global war on terrorism,” it said.
The principal contractors are Chicago-based Boeing and Delex Systems, Inc., of Vienna, Virginia, the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in the mandatory notice.
On March 25, President George W Bush authorised the sale of Lockheed Martin (LMT) F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan in a reversal of 15 years of US policy aimed at curbing Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program.
At the same time, the administration announced it would let US firms supply India multi-role combat aircraft, including upgraded F-16s and F-18s, as well as Patriot missile defense systems.
The AGM-84 Harpoon Block II missile features satellite-guidance systems designed to attack targets in congested off-shore locations
star49Off-topic:
This was posted by Burger man in another thread.
May the 4000 odd NLI soldiers that were killed in Kargil (according to Nawaz Shariff and Bhutto) rest in peace. Though pakistan will never recognize their sacrifices and give them the legitimate military honor they deserved, atleast the Indian army gave them proper last rites. What nation uses its soldiers as cannon fodder and mercilessley leave them to die at the hands of enemy and not even accept the dead bodies? Wonder what effect it had on the morale of the rest of the pakistan army. Every soldier will think twice before sacrificing his life for paksitan again. His sacrifice wont be recognized and if he dies on foreign land, his body would not accepted and he’d be called a terrorrist.Wasnt the same thing repeated on the Afghan border couple of days back? The bodies of 6 paksitani rangers were not taken back. Shame on your country 😡
ps: Mods, please delete this post when cleaning up thread.
bhutto and nawaz has nothing to do with Pak forces. they can say what ever they have no knowledge of inner working and that is the case of every
civilian leadership.
and about Indian media or claims just read the russian export agency chief statement virtually calling them slavish to west by discrediting russian military stuff
star49do not kid your self Israel has very smart people, the Python technology is Israeli, the issue is some IAI technology has been colaboration with the US no doubt about it, but it does not mean Israel has not developed some of the technology, a nation of 8 Million people has better Technology than a large Nation like India or China simply because Israel has developed it, excuses like is American Technology is to hide the big Flaws that Nations like India, Brazil, Pakistan, Mexico, the Philipines, China, Indonesia have that even with millions of people waste their human resources.
Isreal population is made up of immigrants from EU, US, Ex-Soviet. You cannot say it is indigenous population. 25% is just recent from Ex-Soviet Union. It will be like China collects all US and EU born Chinese and give separate country and feed there.
star49Oracle ji:
Just to remind you (since you dont seem to remember much anyway) you had argued that “Su-34 and J-10 use AL-31FM STANDARD.” Thats the keyword that started this errr discussion. Now your own posts shows that the STANDARD engine is FN and that Salyut is trying to come up with a TVC version which it HOPES to sell to the Chinese. So unless your version of english is different when you say something is the standard it means its the norm (widely recognized and employed) and when someone is DEVELOPING something to REPLACE the standard, its not a standard but an IMPROVEMENT. Wait…lemme guess…you are about to reinvent the meaning of the word STANDARD right?. Amaze me… :diablo:
there is difference between -FM standard and -FM-1 standard. -FM-1 was clear for export in 2004 only.
people often get confused because they are simulataneously developing
-FM-2,- FM-3 and -FM-4(5th generation) standards. so if -FM-4 is hasnot reached the flying condition it does not mean that -FM-2 will not.
you can find complete set of this news on that China News thread of Nov 2004. i posted there.
[Correspondent] The displays, the fifth-generation engine that China has ordered, another engine for a Chinese aircraft, which is tested only in China and not in Russia – all these are here at the airshow.
Source: NTV Mir, Moscow, in Russian 1600 gmt 8 Nov 04
star49here is proof of MKI arriving in Malaysia.
MOSCOW. Sept 26 (Interfax-AVN) – A Russian SU-30MKI multifunctional fighter has made a flight to Malaysia’s Langkawi Island, Yuri Chervakov, PR director of the Sukhoi military aircraft corporation, said on Friday.
“The plane will take part in demonstration flights at the seventh Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LIMA 2003) that opens on September 30,” Chervakov told Interfax- Military News Agency.
Malaysia has a great interest in the plane, he stressed.
“The SU-30MKI is a baseline model for the SI-30MKM multifunctional fighter that will be supplied to Malaysia under the contract signed earlier by the parties,” Chervakov noted.
Russia and Malaysia signed a contract for the supplies of 18 SU-30MKM fighters worth a total of USD900m in August this year.
The SU-30MKM is a multifunctional fighter of Generation 4+. The aircraft is fitted with a cutting-edge radar making it possible to use an entire spectrum of aircraft armament from suspension points. This includes air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles with a range of up to 120km. The on-board radar guarantees tracking of up to 15 targets. Front horizontal surfaces are installed in the plane to enhance its carrier properties and improve maneuverability.
The aircraft is powered by two AL-31FPtwo by-pass engines with thrust vector control. It has an aerial refueling system, which enables the aircraft to stay in the air for up to 10 hours.
star49some more the same matter.
Flight International, Dec 2, 2003 p28
In 2002, Salyut began flight tests of an improved version of the AL-31F-M1, with an enlarged fan, also using an Su-27. This year the aircraft was fitted with two Salyut engines equipped with Klimov-developed vectored-thrust swivelling nozzles (the NPO Saturn AL-31PFs powering Indian Su-30MKIs feature nozzle deflection in a single plane). Salyut’s engine is aimed at single-engined aircraft such as the Chinese J-10 fighter, the first production lot of which is powered by the Salyut-built AL-31FN, a special derivative of the basic AL-31F with the engine accessories box moved from above to below the engine’s main body
star49And this is from Moscow Defence Briefs 2001 No.6 in an interview with Yuri Lastochkin, General Director of Saturn NPO
You take FI and I will stick to Lastochkin, while he maybe no oracle I am sure he knows what goes on in his company. So much for who reads what.
I have read these things. are the belong to lot of 50 engines whose contract finished in 2003-04? AL-31FN for prototypes came way before that. and to add more read FI May 2004 issue there is already FM-1 version of FN on offer.
star49LCA operational clearance change from 2007 to 2009.
Asian Age
May 6, 2005Pranab: IAF to have LCA squadron by March ’09
By OUR CORRESPONDENT
New Delhi, May 6: The Cabinet Committee on Security on Thursday approved the time overrun of two major defence projects — the setting up of satellite-based surveillance system and development of the Light Combat Aircraft. Defence minister Pranab Mukherjee said after the CCS meeting that the satellite based system, approved by the government at the cost of Rs 1,050 crore was to be completed by the end of 2005. But after looking at the progress, the CCS decided to extend its deadline till January 31, 2007. In the case of LCA, the phase I was to be completed by March 31, 2004. Earlier in the day, Mr Mukherjee had told Parliament that the first squadron of the indigenous KCA was expected to be operational by 2010-11. The operational flight clearance for the LCA is expected in March, 2009. As part of the surveillance plan, the government had decided to install sensors or radars all along the international borders of the country. The plan was also to equip the defence forces with military satellites with high resolution camera to keep watch on the activities on the border. While adequate medium level coverage along the western and northern border already exists, the air space coverage in central and peninsular India is yet to be catered to. The Satellite Based Surveillance Programme has also been launched to augment surveillance over the Indian airspace. Mr Mukherjee informed the Lok Sabha that the government is also examining the Air Force proposal to set up an aerospace command to use outer space for parking stand-off weapon systems. “Efforts are being made for the induction of the first production version of LCA with initial operation clearance in March, 2007 and the final clearance by March, 2009,” said Mr Mukherjee in his statement on the status of implementation of recommendations made by the standing committee on defence. The minister informed that the satellite-based surveillance had been launched to increase vigilance in the airspace.
star49Dont worry Oracle, Pakistan can still purchase old used Mirages from wherever they want ! :p
dont worry you cannot chose and sign for Mirage that easy 😉 .
If the ambassador words are correctly quoted than US is offering aircraft either for free or use of full might of US at any price(there is alot of explaination for this). There is no option in the middle
Asian Age Holdings Ltd.
Date: May 6, 2005
French envoy targets Boeing
By Seema Mustafa
New Delhi, May 5: A high-powered international row has broken out between France and the United States over securing a major chunk of India’s multi-crore civil aviation and defence purchases. Accusations are being hurled freely between the giant aviation companies and their respective governments with both France, whose Airbus just lost the Air-India contract to the US aviation giant Boeing, and the United States having set their sights firmly on the 126-fighter aircraft deal that India is currently shopping for. The envoys of both countries in India are openly lobbying for their companies, with visible bitterness having crept into relations following India’s sudden decision to give the Air-India contract to Boeing. French ambassador Dominique Girard made it clear to news agencies on Thursday that “some factor other than commercial had played a role” in giving this much-sought-after contract to Boeing instead of Airbus. He said that Boeing would not be able to deliver the 50 planes on an urgent basis, and that Airbus had been virtually assured of the contract before New Delhi decided to go along with the US company. He said he was “surprised and disappointed as the Airbus definitely has an advantage over Boeing.” It has been clear from the French reaction that Airbus was caught completely unawares about the Indian decision. Hectic lobbying is now on by both the US and France, at the government-to-government level, for the 126 fighter aircraft contract. Here too the United States is a late entrant, with no less a person than n Turn to Page 2 US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice opening the doors for the supply of F-16s or F-18s to India, which had been looking hard at the Mirage-2000 manufactured by the French company Dassault. There is apprehension in French circles now over the fate of this deal as well, more so as Indo-US relations could have a direct bearing on this defence agreement. Ambassador Girard said as much to the media on Thursday: “I am sure the Indian government is wise enough not to base its decision on one factor or the other, but to take comprehensive factors into consideration.” He said that if this deal too went to the US, “it will mean that a lot of other factors have gone into consideration.” The French ambassador was firm: “We value contracts, we never stop supplies under any condition.” He was clearly referring to Washington’s reputation of stopping defence supplies at any point in time, as was the case with India and Pakistan after the nuclear tests. New Delhi is under pressure from Washington to look positively at the F-16s. US ambassador to India David C. Mulford followed up Ms Rice’s visit to India with a select media briefing, at which he made it clear that the US was clearly in the market for the defence deal, and that it would make an offer to India that the government would just not be able to refuse. He also said that the American plane was “superior” to any other plane. The US ambassador admitted that the issue of defence supplies was subject to the will of the US Congress, and any adverse resolution by it would be binding on the administration. This is one of the main reasons why the Indian military, almost to the last officer, is strongly opposed to finalising an agreement for the 126 aircraft with the United States. The Mirage is definitely a favourite with the Indian armed forces as it is widely perceived to be a better aircraft and with a technology with which Indian pilots are more familiar and comfortable. There is a view here that the Americans will “supply us with obsolete models” and a visible reluctance to opt for the US offer. Minister of state for civil aviation Praful Patel has been drawn into the US-France controversy over the Air-India contract, and has gone on record to defend the decision. The Boeing versus Airbus allegations that have found their way into the Indian media has created some embarrassment for New Delhi, which was keen to keep this deal above controversy. The whisper campaign centres, predictably, around commissions and political pressure, with the civil contract now being seen as a precursor for the final battle over the defence aircraft contract. As sources here pointed out, there are not many other countries with the budget to shop in the market for 126 aircraft at one go. “India is in a position to dictate terms,” the sources pointed out, adding, “but let us see whether we do that or end up paying through our nose for deals that depend on commissions and not official negotiations.” [/quote]
star49the worlds cheapest fighter jet is presently the F-7xx in PLAAF service 🙂 the FC-1 should be also be really cheap esp as it has no engine 🙂 and the rest is also left to customer for “plug n play”
they missed the word qualifier “4th gen”.
they didnot missed the word “4Th” generation because it isnt a 4th generation. It has specification of 4th not actual thats why IAF is procuring MRCA after all why compare it with F-22, Rafale, Gripen, Mirage when LCA is itself inducting by 2010 and it cheap and can be upgraded.
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