star49From PTI
US is on very fast track provided India also open its purse at the same speed and throw the other competitiors out. i have read this general interview at defensenews. India has too many questions.
star49CAT1,
India has opened up an LCA production even when the IAF says that it will not order more tahn 40 with the GE-F404 engine.
The Kamra plant is going to get a full engine from China and will likely never manufarcture the powerplant. These are political statements, especially the opening was tied to Premier Wen’s visit.
There is also a logical answer. China has a few RD-93s in stock and the PAF might be willing to take in a first few with RD-93s as another engine is getting ready. Similar to IAF taking in first few LCAs with F-404 as Kaveri gets ready.
There isnt big engine order sign for LCA so failure of program is obvious. 100 engine order for FC-1 is sign of confidence on aircraft. and beside this the whole project for China was export in mind so if they have alternative engine so there is no reason for them buying RD-93 themselves and another engine for export(there goes your theory of intakes). there AL-31 based fighters are enough for them.
star49wait untill it is signed and planes are operationally inducted. alot of countries are willing to sell to india and has completed negotiations.
star49Why not ask your military about that? They will tell you the reasons. 🙂
i know the reasons. they just want to create confusion. you can see this from statements and newsreports.
star49BVRAAMs come after the engine.
Today’s news from Russian Paper Kommersant Daily
you can post as much as you want. China hasnt placed any order for its airforce for FC-1. so ordering 100 engines are moot point. they will just rename the same engines in China to another name and supplied to PAF. :p
but i dont think indians are that clever. remember how pak got iglas.
star49“ISLAMABAD, April 16: The air force on Friday announced plans to integrate the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles into the JF-17 Thunder aircraft.”
They not even did so. Did they give the selected type? Maybe it is true hardware in China. So far I have not seen a pic of a real BVR AAM at the ground in Pakistan or on a weaponspylon of a PAF fighter in service.
Maybe in some years, but not in April 2005.
When will be the first and last F-16MLU in PAF service.
Please stick to the facts. 😉
he used the word technology and in same phrase H-2 and H-4 bombs. which are SA PGMs. so if H-2 and H-4 are already inducted and will go into JF-17 in future. so what is preventing BVR already? and that was April 2004 and still no body knows about that BVR untill now. and. JF-17 news will lie low untill F-16 is absorbed.
star49The EU countries still keep their embargo and most of those are not envolved in the F-35 program at all. Not speaking about US-help in billion $.
The Russian do not participate in the F-35 program too or receiving similar money from the USA. In 1989 it was still the former SU. 😎
Some idiots in Israel risked a setback with the USA for a small profit. 😮
To blame others to save face or lame excuses do not help out. Investigate who is responsable for that idiotic behavior in Israel. 😉
how is it small profit? no body know underhand details. If China according to some claims want to spent billions to lift eu embargo. why not give it to Israel and get all the information about taiwan and japan weopons. they hardly uses eu weopons.
star49Wishfull thinking aside, so far the PAF is not fielding a single BVR-AAM today. 😉
So the next military clash has to wait for some years until the PAF is prepared to such capability. In the meanwhile there is a big performance gap and the Pakistani military are aware about it. More Su-30s are coming from the line every month, when the PAF is still waitung for the first F-16C to arrive, which may come close to that.
Serious observers do compare, what is at hand really for some time. So Faruqui’s assessment is correct.
Seems there is a double standard of information in Pakistian. A wishfull one for the less educated home-audiance and a more realistic one to the editor of AFM or western world. 😮
Yes they are building Su-30 every month. total su-30 will stop at 50 for number of years before India can built actual indiegenous Su-30. PAF is not waiting for F-16C. first MLU will start from next year. your information is inaccurate. If someone like project chief claims they can built bvr it means that they are already operational and tested. no body can claim on underdeveloped things which donot work.
http://www.dawn.com/2004/04/17/top6.htm
“We have now selected the BVR missiles for integration into the JF-17 Thunder. We made a breakthrough recently by acquiring the technology,” he said. He said the JF-17 would also carry H-2 and H-4 bombs.
star49Seems you got an idea at least.
The Pakistani F-16A/Bs are similar to Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s, but lacking any BVR capability so far.
The Su-30s are at least a half class higher and comparable to F-15s.F-7s, Mirages are comperable to MiG-21s, MiG-23s, MiG-27s, Jaguars, Harriers.
From that Indian ones are some BVR capable too.The best circumstances for the PAF in mind and ignoring quality levels. Even a numerical ratio of 1:2 forces the PAF has to be 4 times as good to achive a draw. (Lancasters rule) 😉
So Ahmad Feruqui’s statement is sound. You try to gamble, driven by wrong bravado. The interviews given by higher Pakistani military in AFM showed, that those are realistic people. Limiting the PAF to deterrence and create an unknown risk of losses for the IAF. Just to prevent the use of atomic weapons as long as possible. 😮
how is Su-30 half class higher? does it have lower rcs, more composites, higher twr.
about bvr, PAF has been using italian radars for a decade now, aspide has been shown with active seeker, r-27 has been shown. sa pgm has been inducted into mirages, there is also report of FD-60(PL-11) for F-16s. so do you think they left the bvr issue left behind? or they want the best bvr so all others are not even mentioned. PAF official will never divulge systems in interviews. this is not the way how it works.
there is very recent report on russian NDTV MIR of april -8. there is very details in that about IL-76 flights direct from russia 5 or 6 years ago into very controlled terriortery of pak. 🙂
star49The one “who counts all camels and donkeys the same way” will stick to numbers only. 😉
It is the ratio of quality forces, which is decisive. So counting one to one the same way is very misleading, to stay polite. 😀
ok apart from 30 or so MKI. the rest are 20 years old mirages and mig-29 whose radar and PGMs are not better than Paf Mirage-3. so where is the 4th generation aircraft. and how the author put $60m price on F-16 and years to build. when old and MLU options are quicker and cheaper. this person knows nothing about aviation and he writes article about it.
star49Interesting piece.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_15-4-2005_pg3_2
Yes very interesting piece. does IAF operates 1800 jets that it has 6 to 1 advantage?
and where is the indication that PAF is spending billlions? all talk is about US assistance. this person does not know what is his writing about. his economist so he should stay out of this the better for his credibility. It seems that you read reports written by 2 cent people and based wild speculation on them.
star49Golden Arrow
I had also stated that in the last thread which was locked that PAF is looking into two deals, one is picking up older F-16s thru MLU upgrade and bring the numbers of existing older models to 50+. They might buy older F-16s from Turkey as well who have provided them with spares during the sanctions.
second, place an order for 60 new F-16s. I dont think that PAF would go with the Block 60 F-16s since it has GE engine in it. I would be amazed if PAF went for two different engines. But, there is another side to it. If PAF goes thru the Structural Augmentation Roadmap(Falcon Star) programme and changed the engines also, then they might change all the engines to GE. This MLU would cost aprrox $15 Million per aircraft.
there is pw engine -229A for F-16E. it was utx that took part in ideas 2004exhibition and most likely there engines and block number shows it. PAF has publicly asked for AIM-120 and JDAMs in that exhibition. it is even in AFM issue. As usual GA knowledge is outdated by saying that PAF will not ask for things that are not going to be approved. PAF wil ask for every thing. it is another matter if they are approved or not.
star49For the Price & Capability it provides , this looks like a Killer Aircraft to me , As to why IAF/IN didnt go for it , well the first thing is that Hawk is a proven aircraft operated my many airforces , It meets the operational spec what IAF has asked for , It was in the Race from Day One and was favoured by the IAF, YAK-130 was still in development and the IAF didnt wished to wait any longer or delay the AJT procurement for the want of another aircraft however good it might me , as many here might be aware that AJT was in waiting for past 20 years and it was already long overdue.
If IAF can wait 20 years for AJT why not 2 or 3 years more and get newer aircraft that is in the beginning of life instead of at the end. and IAF is not getting hawk before ruaf gets Yak
star49Did Dassault officials tell you that its less sophisticated than a variant of F-16 and that It would take 10 years to reach that level of sophistication.
Or did the lockheed guys whispered this in your ears , about the advancement of F-16 over other aircraft.
Or is this just a figment of your imagination.Introducing The Rafale
Rafale Avionics
Rafale Future
Read This TooWhy dont you indulge in something as basic as reading , before you post your educated comments .
why you havent seen the length Rafale development history? and it is not even a 5th generation aircraft. Just calculate the money spent on F-16 in past 30 years. It is surely more than the combined Mirages, rafale, ef, gripen, sukhoi, migs. there is no comparision.
star49The rafale mk2 proposed to South Korea had all that (better engine, AESA) and was the cheaper aircraft of the competition.
The cost was certainly on part with the F-16E, but the difference would be on the operationnal cost.You should read a bit more about french aircraft.
cheaper relative to which aircraft? and development time and delivery schedule. About french aircraft they are certainly better than russians but not better than US.
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