star49What, like the inertial guidance system for the SS-24, which was made in, you guessed it, the Ukraine?
so do u think it is still advance as 2008 model year ICBM. and still those people are alived.
star49If they lacked the knowledge to do it then your NTI article wouldn’t have listed them as a proliferation concern.
It is not fully integrated entity now. Just it can provide some help in certain areas. NTI article is couple of years old.
SLV is more easier (even that is only 1 or two lauches at most per year with foreign funding and expertize. If they can do 10 to 20 space launches than may be) than ICBM which needs more advance guidance and control to hit at greater distance in earth with accepatable CEP. No point in ICBM that can have CEP of hundreds of kms.
star49And if you were right, the Ukraine wouldn’t be able to construct SLVs. Like I said, all they need to do is find warheads.
I doubt any qualified personal left now for modern ICBM. and with increase Russian funding what is left may leave so soon just like heli engines and antonov.
http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Ukraine/Missile/index.html
Although Ukraine has attempted to embark on a number of joint projects with Western countries, most of them have collapsed, leaving Russia as Ukraine’s most important partner in this field and the sole source of funding for many missile enterprises. The combination of the difficult financial situation of Ukraine’s missile facilities and their technological prowess makes them a vulnerable target for countries of proliferation concern.Ukraine’s was by and large a somewhat random collection of facilities that happened to be located on the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR. In short, Ukraine is an inheritor of a missile industry in whose creation it played virtually no role—a product of the unique circumstances in which this former Soviet republic found itself.
star49Go and look up how many Russians live in cities, & what proportion of economic activity they account for. Russia, as an organised state, would disappear, as would a very large proportion of its population & most of its economy. Whatever might be eventually rebuilt would be much smaller, as any fringe nationalities not nuked would begin governing themselves (no choice, really), & neighbours would move in to restore some kind of order & restore the flow of raw materials, potentially fighting over the scraps. One would expect the Chinese to grab much of Siberia, Japan to reclaim some islands, etc., etc. There’d be a lot of undamaged land, but not Russia, as a significant state.
There is still alot of Russians outside Russia to populate new cities. Just look at Northern kazakhistan.
Now, let’s get back to reality. There will be no nuclear war between Russia & the UK, however much you want it.
When you make strong statements in other countries u raise expecataions for those people and Russians are now ready to call that bluff by conventional means.
French are atleast more honest not making tall statements which they cant follow up.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aUVxqO3Bix7g
Kouchner said some of the bloc’s leaders “will propose sanctions, others will be against” when they meet on Sept. 1 to discuss the situation in Georgia. In a subsequent statement, Kouchner said France hasn’t proposed sanctions against Russia and will seek to forge a common EU position on the issue
star49http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSLS60130720080828
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia successfully tested a long-range Topol missile designed to avoid detection by anti-missile defence systems from its Plesetsk launch site, a Russian military spokesman said on Thursday.
“The launch was specially tasked to test the missile’s capability to avoid ground-based detection systems,” said Colonel Alexander Vovk of the Russian Strategic Rocket Forces.
Washington and Warsaw formally signed a deal last week to station elements of a U.S. missile defence shield in Poland, a move that has aggravated Russian-Western tensions already raw from Moscow’s intervention in Georgia.
Russia has heaped scorn on the missile defence system, which the U.S. says is aimed at Iran, and through its Foreign Ministry last week vowed “to react, and not only through diplomatic protests.”
The RS-12M Topol, called the SS-25 Sickle by NATO, has a maximum range of 10,000 km (6,125 miles) and can carry one 550-kiloton warhead.
Last October former Russian President Vladimir Putin, now the prime minister, said the country was working on new types of nuclear weapons as part of a “grandiose” plan to boost the country’s defenses.
“As part of the commander in chief’s order there will be a few more launches of this particular missile before the end of the year,” Vovk said.
Russia has reconfigured earlier Topol models to expand their life-span to 23 years and has been evaluating the reliability of flight stabilizers that allow the missile to fly to a target in a manner similar to cruise missiles
star49Yeah, I know. Even better. :diablo: “You know, we could make your F-35s a bit better if you let us take a peek at those.”
I could even make PAK-FA better by looking at F-16. Long time have passed in manufacturing, software, propellent, propulsion. and for ICBM u need continous tests and maintainance for viability. Ukraine is decade away from that now and those who can do it left for Russia.
star49Kinda like Turkey and the S-300s :diablo:
Greece also has S-300 for a decade now?. it is pretty obsolete for Russian standards. Russia itself is offering S-400 to Turkey/UAE etc. and most of Industrail/scientific community is russian by ethinc origin. Motorsich is building engines under license in Russia. U cannot rely on country like Ukriane where there is no passport requirement between the two countries.
star49zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Message is very clear.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/27/AR2008082702996.html
Mr. Medvedev was asked by more than one journalist whether Russia’s aggression might be directed at other neighboring states, such as Ukraine, Moldova or the Baltic members of NATO. He answered by noting that millions of Russians live outside the country, and he asserted the right as “commander in chief” to “protect the lives and dignity of our citizens.” He stated to the BBC: “In certain cases I have no choice but to take these kinds of actions
star49Neither is Russia.
So what West sacrificed for Georgia? it cannot even conventinally confront Russia let alone in Nuke field where Russia has major investment. Just listen to Medvedev interview to BBC. Russia has the right on all Soviet countries. and there are not going to listen to any on this issue.
star49Which won’t magically resurrect Russia from the ashes.
The point is UK is not going to sacrifice itself for UKraine. So need to give false hopes. It is much easier to defeat Ukraine than Georgia. Just look at geography and ethinic background. The point is Russia is not Soviet Union. It is not constrained when it acts when all resources are available.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aRZtP1GESfUg
Russia plans to garner additional lessons from Georgia. Medvedev, 42, on Aug. 18 said the war should be used to develop new approaches to arms procurement and assigned Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov to come up with them.
“There will be a decisive switch towards practical action,” Nogovitsyn said. “When there were no resources, we shuffled papers in academies, but now a new era has started. We will teach our troops whatever they need to know” with exercises that replicate battle conditions and aircraft that “no longer sit on the runway.”
star49Firebar, you can keep thinking in your little fantasy world that the Mig-25/31 can fly almost as long at Mach 3 as the SR-71 and do crazy maneuvers at high altitude and speed, but that just isn’t the truth. Sure, it handles better than the Blackbird, and any casual aviation observer would notice that as the Foxbat looks much more like a fighter aircraft than the Blackbird, whereas the Blackbird is very long with engines on the wings and non-conventional parts. However, the Mig-25/31 could not keep up with the SR-71 in speed and trying to make that claim is ridiculous. The official records speak for themselves-2193 mph for the Blackbird and 1856 mph for the Foxbat. Plus, the SR-71 could maintain that speed for over 2800 miles, which is what really separates it apart from any other high-speed aircraft.
MIG-25/MI-31 does not need to keep up with SR-71 on range as MIGs were cheaprer and greater quantity so it can go one by one against SR-71 and could force SR-71 to abort mission. and u have to take into account Soviet Union could not afford continous upgrades to MIG since early 80s. Only now light weight avionics/increased engine thrust, greater payload (hence large ET) are going into MIG-31 which should have been done 20 years ago. So MIG-31 is still usefull for next 20 years. Design and role eactly matches. I am not going into new MIG-31 with material and manufacturing technologies which were simply not available.
star49Well, they DID IT.
Medvedev recognizes the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia:
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29492…and tells he’s not afraid of a new “Cold War”…
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29490I suppose you all know the famous Churchill quote according to which Russia “is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma”. But strangely enough, no one ever quotes the line entirely. It runs as follows:
“I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.”QED.
I think the fault lines in Soviet Union was that other republics have too much power in decision making (It was a union of separate entities) that prevented Russians to take decisive action on various issues during the cold war and mismanaged the end of cold war. so i think this history is going to be revisited.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/17/AR2008081702420.html
The son of a poor teacher, he became the Soviet Union’s minister of foreign affairs under Mikhail Gorbachev. Unlike Stalin, who was born in Georgia but did his fellow Georgians no favors, Shevardnadze said he opposed Soviet moves that were not in Georgia’s interest. For example, he was against the building of a tunnel between North and South Ossetia through which Russia’s army moved in last week.“They were wanting this for what is happening right now,” he said of the Soviet leadership.
Shevardnadze was chosen by Gorbachev in 1985 and was a soul mate of the Soviet leader from the early days of glasnost and perestroika. He played a role in negotiating major arms-control agreements with the West and in allowing the revolutions in Eastern Europe to unfold without the use of force by Moscow.
star49well at this rate i am afraid we will have a peaceful Russia Missile thread , into an India-Pak-China war game , so lets end this here , may be SOC can just delete the irrelevent part .
To cool star49 nerves , china is a superpower in the making or something like that 🙂 , our ABM concerns are more earthly or more precisely Pakistan brother specific 😉
I am just emphasizing u cannot ignore the issue of money in any context. These SAMs systems are alot expensive and needs couple of years training for operational deployment. Just look at S-400 time line for for very tech savy russians.
India may have liked the system in mid 90s but too expensive/challenging at that time so technical short coming is the answer. SAM operators are not Pilots in overall expenditure and pay.
star49Wasnt the first MKI deal was in 1996 worth $1.4 billion .
And by 1996 China already had licensing deal twice the amount of inital MKI.
We evaluated it , not trained on it , we even evaluated the A-50 AWACS for some time , in both cases it did not meet the requirement
China was evaluting Phalcon since 1995-96. and first A-50 flew in 1999.
U see India is copycating China but a decade later with much smalle quantity.
The first PAD interception was at 50 km , in the coming test and progressively they will increase the envelop , it is designed for kill box of 50- 80 km.
China hit satellite in Space at much further heights but it does not minimize the importance and role of S-300PMU-2.
star49I meant PMU-2 was available in 2001, not PMU-1. Typo. It was displayed earlier as Favorit but not fully ready for export.
S-300PMU-2 is pretty old system.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/s-300pmu2.htm
Unveiled at the MAKS’97 exhibition in August 1997, the S-300PMU2 Favorit represents a thorough modification of the S-300PMU1. The first tests were performed on 10 August 1995 at the Kapustin Yar firing range. One new element is the entirely new 96L6E autonomous mobile radar, which works in conjunction with the 83M6E2 control post and S-300MPU2 launchers. The new 48N6E2 missile, developed by MKB Fakel, weighs 1,800 kg, and is 7.5 m long and 0.5 m in diameter. After a cold start in the upright position with help of a catapult, the 48N6E2 accelerates up to 1,900 m/s in 12 sec time, and then approaches the target from above. The 48N6E2 differs from the older 48N6E in having a new warhead specially designed for destroying ballistic missiles, with a warhead weight of 145 kg versus 70-100 kg.
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