Too limited use. Not worth the cost. Russian AF usually opts for cheaper upgrades than foreign customers. Unfortunately for the 31, there are no export customers for it, at all.

There are no export customers for S-400 or Su-27SM either. Su-27SM is first aircraft with enhanced thrust engines, newer IRST/FBW/ECM systems. MIG-31BM upgrade includes new missiles/LCDs/enhanced engines/range etc. pretty comprhensive upgrade. AESA is very cheap upgrade to backend of current radars. It is just antenna change. if slotarray can be upgraded phased array is much easier.

Keep thinking that way. If Sukhoi keeps championing 40+ year old PESA technology with all its limitations, they won’t sell any airplanes to nations that have a choice of AESA.

MIG-31BM is also PESA and will continue to upgraded untill 2020. Clear 5th generation competitor with longest range weopons. why they are not enlarging Zhuk-AESA into MIG-31BM?

I repeat that my comments were aimed at *49’s pointless statements, and as such I did not bother to make a full PhD-worth assessment of the current state of Russian industry in light of current financial crisis with special regards to Western European financial needs. I dutifully excuse for this failure not to explain the world in this forum.
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Russian aviation industry has never produced truly competitive civilian aircrafts since it started to produce any. I agree that special circumstances like requirements (while Boeings also accept -30°C) and especially lack of good engines prevented real good products. But we have to admit that the work that was done at Airbus and Boeing since the mid 70ies (since they are the only airframers developing truly new aircraft, Douglas & Lockheed stopped that in the 70ies) with programs like A310, A320, A330/340, A380 on this side of the Atlantic and B757/767,B777,B747-400,B737NG on the other side of the pond, cannot be duplicated in a matter of years. Tkae a close look and see which Russian airframer last put an aircraft from the drawing board to operation (operation is not first flight) and how long he needed.

A-380 is not success either. Consider the amount of money and time invested in it. No money after A-380 to deveolop anything.
Even An-124 is better than it. More IL-76 are in service than A-340. And ther eis still demand for these aircraft in various modifications from Cargo to AWACS/Airrefueller. IL-96/Tu-204 is another sucess story. despite crises of 1990s. There still orders for it and newer version are going to be certified. Only Success is A-320 in financial terms. whose era will soon end anyway as Both Russia and China are developing this class airplane.
Oak has started work on 787/A-350 class airline. The whole point to create a superior plane to the above.

http://www.royfc.com/acft_news.html
OAK to Conduct Scientific Research and Experimental Design Work on Development of Wide-Body Short and Medium Range Airplane

The current situation with several airframers (Antonov, Illushyn, Suchoi, Tupolev) having one or two products that sell slow or not at all, at the same time no real project or market outlook, will see the Russian civil aviation industry decline to non-existence in the next 10 years.

What are those Tu-204SM, Tu-334. Sukhoi SSJ, IL-96M400, MS-21, IL-76MF, MTA, An-148. It is not airframe but huge supply chain of parts that is taking time in creating large scale production.

The only exception is Suchoi (which is by heritage no civil airframer), who did its homework, designed a state-of-art aircraft, nothing too fancy but OK given the market, accepted Western participation and organized a solid program. That aircraft will sell reasonably and will generate and maintain capabilities at Suchoi.

Why do u think MS-21 will not be a sucess?. It will be built at Irkut. Much stronger business case behind it with the most advanced manufacturing behind it.

As for the others, their current products are maybe somewhere competitive (Tu-204&334, Il-96, An-148), but they are so much aimed at markets that are already rock-solid in Western hands, that they don’t really help (look at Embraer, they did it good and exploited a market niche they now own for at least a few years).

These products are alot competitive once Western banking industry goes out of the way.

The resources of the Russian airframers are not sufficient to keep up with the players in the regional market (Embrear, Bombadier) and definitely not in the big market (airbus, Boeing). Attempts by the state-run OAK to remedy this (Google MS-21) are in my eyes not really thought to the end. Just throwing money at a problem does not necessarily produce results, especially not in aviation.

The resources are far more than Embarer/Bombardier/airbus combined.

A devastating blow will funnily be the financial crisis. In the next two years so many used but still useful airliners will flood the market, that no-one sees a point in purchasing a Tu-204 or an Il-96.

Let see who wins from this financial crises.

Keep dreaming.. nowhere near future Renault will drop the factories in Romania and Turkey. AvtoMoskva is building based on the kits from Romania….
Diluted soul u have…

Keep dreaming. Just look at Japanese. They have made Thailand and China as major base for there Auto exports to Asia/Australlia/Middleast/Africa. Japanese have only assembly plants in other countries. Ranualt/Nissan is going in big way. looking for 1.5 to 2 million production and with changing Russian laws they will have to produced most of parts and share platforms with Autovaz. And offcourse lower metal and eneryg prices that Russians offered. That time will come that Ranualt/Nissan will abandon entire Eastern and Western Europe all together. Russians are very clear about it what they are getting into.

You are tuely deluded, russia will effectively be bankrupt if Gas and Oil prices stay at current levels, the frozen wastelands of the north are not the middle east, each barrel of oil and cubic foot of gas costs MUCH more to get out of the ground than it does in less harsh climates, hell their are known field which were still considered uneconomic to exploit by big oil when PPB was over $100, you bring up factories opening in russia (which by the way are in no way world beating in size), those pop up in any economic are where products can sell, as soon as the cash dries up in the general population (or the world economy dictates restricting to your known markets) they will shut, and as for the other russian “recovered” industries you mention, the only ones worth talkning about as major players are space exploration and steel/metals, the rest are still backwards basket cases

what was the avg price of Oil from 2004-2007?. what high Oil prices in 2008 has done is it created enormous inflation and flow of hot money.
And any Oil is not that important as they have negotiated long term gas contracts with EU and now with UKraine. Russian firms have plenty of export licenses for cheap oil in other countries but there is no need to develop them as fast.

http://www.kyivpost.com/business/bus_focus/30685
Ukraine will start paying market prices for Russian gas in three years, according to a contract between the two countries’ monopolies, Reuters reported on Oct. 24, citing Zerkalo Nedeli’s website.

The reality is that, regardless of recession, the Europeans, Americans (et al) have much stronger economies than Russia. Recessions come, and they go, and just as you bluster that Russia will adjust and tighten its belt, so can Europe, or does economics work completely differently for Russia? :rolleyes:

This is not your past recessions that u can come out of it. Ur creating enormous money supply that will create future inflation and devaluation.
How will EU getout of recession/bankruptcy when it will losing manufacturing to Asia and it doesnot have natural resources/trade routes to compensate for?.

The Ukrainians may have a long relationship with Russia, but it is worth noting that it hasn’t always been a positive one! The Ukrainians may not join NATO, they might choose a middle ground, and frankly, that would be in their best interests. If the Ukraine decides to declare itself neutral, a la Sweden, it may manage to avoid direct confrontation with Russia, yet still reap the benefits of trade and friendship with the West. If the Ukrainians went down this path, buying Chinese might still be the best bet – get a production license for the JF-17, and churn them out in good numbers. Not perfect, but in concert with a good air defence network, enough to make any attacker’s victory a pyrrhic one!

Russia can surely donate fighters from its invenotry. Russia government has new doctorine of privilige status in post soviet space. I dont think EU has financial/industrial capacity or free border regime to support UKraine economically.

The F-22 would be at a disadvantage on the ground, so I’ll concede that point. As for limited quantities- how many Su-35s are there currently in service?:cool:
What is the actual range of the F-22, or do you feel that all of the open source info is the true extent of the capabilities(seeing as how you like to use that excuse w/ regards to Russian aircraft). The Su-35 doesn’t have anything comparable to the ALR-94(or the APG-77 for that matter).

Su-27SM is continous upgrade untill 2020. So expect 200 to 300 modernized and 80 to 100 new flankers in addition to Su-34. Sukhoi is said that IRBIS is the most capable radar in the world in export version. I am expecting Su-27SM2 to outperform it.
what is information targetting system for?

http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/military/su-35.wbp
Long range information targeting system
Advanced jam-resistant secure communication system providing data link between the aircraft and ground-based command centers

Just because stealth is understood, doesn’t mean that it isn’t a problem. It just means that you understand why you can’t see targets until they are very close. As for those ranges, why should I assume a significantly different figure? What countries has Russia exported S-400s to? Why would export info be given, if it’s not being exported? Please provide a link that shows export missiles/radar = 1/2 range of Russian models, since you love to throw that assertion around.

It isnt a problem when Russian clearly said they can shoot donw stealth vehicles. Where did they said Stealth is a problem? show me a single statement than i will show u tons of statement of stealth not a problem. including MIG-35 new IRST.

In your own words, can you explain to me what you think the term nanotechnology means.

Speaking of LM, and their ability to predict nanotechnology-

http://www.examiner.com/a-185531~Lockheed_to_build__revolutionary__nano_aircraft.html

This is 2006. two decades after F-22 program.

China expects Russia to help launch commercial production of heavy helicopters

MOSCOW. Oct 29 (Interfax-AVN) – A memorandum that was signed between the United Industrial Corporation Oboronprom and the Chinese company AVICopter in Moscow on Tuesday envisions the joint development and commercial production of a heavy civilian helicopter with a design takeoff weight of about 30 tonnes, a source from the Russian military industrial sector told Interfax.

“The Chinese have been buying heavy helicopters Mi-26 from us, but they want to develop their own more state-of-the-art model and arrange its production with our assistance,” he said.

China is interested in the joint project on building a heavy helicopter and obtaining a license to launch its commercial production at its enterprises, he said.

This helicopter could be based on the Mi-46 helicopter currently being developed by the Moscow Helicopter Plant, the source said. “The Chinese market for such helicopters is about 300. Taking into account the size of the country and its population, they plan to use these helicopters for transporting passengers and cargo, and also in the construction sector and in rescue operations – the recent earthquake in Sichuan showed the need for building up the fleet of heavy helicopters,” he said.

The implementation of this project would help Russian helicopter producers advance their R&D on heavy helicopters, the source said.

Russia is the only country in the world producing helicopters capable of carrying 20 tonnes. European companies have only started working in this area.

“As regards the protocol signed between the company Helicopters of Russia and China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), it envisions the sale of four Russian Mi-26 heavy helicopters to China,” he said.