Which REAL economy has Russia to offer besides oil & arms?

I see a new A320 fly by my window every other day, since 1st Jan up to this day more civil aircraft than the entire Russian aviation industry has produced in the last 5 years combined. That is real economy.

Russia has very real economy with virtually unlimited Potential. Recently China is giving massive loans to Russian corporate to replace the loans from Western banks that Russian corporations took from Western banks during cheap era of money supply. Western Banks are essentially bankrupt.
Russia alone will replace Australlia/Canada/Brazil/Middleast/Africa combined for whole of East Asia. It is the port and pipeline infrastructure that will take some time after that it will behave very differently with EU. No more overflights of Lufhansa to Asia over Siberia.
Russia does not need to create its own brands. Where do u think Renalut/Nissan/Hyundi biggest plant along with supplier is building? Where dawoo supershipyards are building? Where Samsung started LCD production?. Where STMicro/Infenon/Intel has done design and manufacturing agreements?
Every brand from South Korea/China/EU/US is creating its own shop with design center/research and manufacturing. Russian civillian aerospace industry will recover in near future just as Nuclear power/Space/Strategic Weopons/Icebreaker/Mining/Steel/Software has already recovered.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081027/117964622.html
Russia predicts record grain harvest, plans sales to China

Offcourse it is EU that will supply Nuclear fuel on large scale to UKraine and it is EU that will absorb UKraine Steel Production. It is EU that will provide transport route for Ukraine products to Asia.

http://www.mcapital.com.ua/news.php?id=559173
Ukraine Needs Russian Electricity
Ukraine is going to import 1.1bn kw of electricity from Russia during October-December. Deputy Minister of Fuel and Energy, Volodymyr Luchnikov said it is caused by1mn tonnes coal deficit and emergency interruption on Ckmelnytsky nuclear plant, causing extra coal expenditures

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews+articleid_2746722.html
Russia Pledges $17 Bln to Ukraine to Enhance Chernobyl Safety
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:56 PM
The Russian diplomat also said that an international uranium enrichment center was established jointly with Kazakhstan in Russia in 2007, at the Angara Electrolysis Chemicals Combine.
The center is open to third countries without any political terms, he said, adding that Armenia and Ukraine are almost finished with admission procedures.

Brits had night vision, too. Just ten years ago they had their own image intensifiers (EEV) and own designs by Pilkington Optronics, GEC-Marconi, Phychem Advision Systems or SolarTron.

After French THALES bought Pilkington and switched from EEV tubes to their own Photonis intensifiers, they effectively sent EEV an the whole british NV industry into the sands of past. The remaining British designs that are still in production (KITE) are produced under the THALES flag now. France 1, Britain 0..

Britain had Auto Industry also. but its owners are from outside. Britain like US believed in Globalization and in Globalization this myth was created that who controls the financial Industry (Globalized Banks/Insurance/markets) will control the World. I doubt Britain has French TGV bullet train capability. French has alot of unique engineering products. Ranault transformation of Nissian/Infiniti from bankruptcy to world thirld most profitable car maker in less than 4 years is not less than a miracle in industrial sector.

High frequency radars work the same way, no matter who builds them. They send out radio waves in certain bandwidths(i.e. X Band) and these radio waves behave the same way no matter what the national origin happens to be. Stealth works the same way- by absorbing or scattering the energy away from the source, so that there’s little to no return. Fire control radars need a certain resolution to detect, track, and guide weapons. Without a strong enough return, the radar won’t be able to do these things, and that’s the gist of stealth. In a nutshell, it means a VLO aircraft can get very close to an emitter, before a signal can be detected. So long as the VLO aircraft stays outside of that range, they’re gonna have first look, first shoot, first kill advantages.

Surely every thing is the same.S-400 destroy everything so it means this person is oblivous to any thing made of stealth.

http://www.royfc.com/news/apr/0407apr01.html
Speaking of the decreased number of air defense personnel, General of the Army Mikhaylov noted that this had to be compensated in some way. “The S-400 system copes with it fully. It shoots higher and damages targets at a greater distance than before, and it shoots down all the enemy’s aerial strike systems they have today, this is the most important thing,” Mikhaylov said. Having decreased the quantity of personnel, the quality of the weapons had to be improved, owing to which the decrease in quantity of air defense forces is being compensated, the general noted.

5th Gen refers to specific capabilities that previous generations didn’t have. Some 4th Gen aircraft may have some 5th Gen systems(i.e. Super Hornet, etc..) but they’re still 4th Gen platforms. If you use a different definition, then the definition loses meaning, because then it can mean anything. Definitions can’t be subjective, where opinions come into play, as everyone has different opinions. It would be akin to you and I arguing over how long 1 meter is, or whether an hour = 60 minutes.

Sukhoi and Ruaf will put there own definitions what is relevant for 5+ just like they have for 4, 4+ and 4++. and it will depend on time frame. some thing 5th generation in 1990s is not the 5th generation of 21st century. so PAK-FA and MIG-1.44 are 5th generation but not the same capabilities. there is no fix target for 5th generation. Just like 4th generation era spread over 3 decades.

All of those weapons have reached IOC, and the JSOW has been used in combat. As long as you still have to deal with the limitations of detection, it won’t matter what kind of SAMs are in service. Perhaps with EO/IR guidance they might be effective, but they still have to know there’s a target to shoot at, as they’re not gonna be tracking VLO aircraft at hundreds of Kms.

But it hasnt reached on Stealth figher. Ur making assume scenario of a decade later. Stealth aircraft inherently limited in capacity to u cannot saturate a target.
There is no guarantee of not tracking VLO target from hundreds of kms.

All that said was that they felt the airframe would take less time than avionics. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it hasn’t been one of the things holding the PAK FA up.

when he made the statement. It was pretty obvious that airframe is not big deal. Which contridict ur point that for 5th generation airframe is the main thing.

What if monkeys could fly? X band which is what is the primary band for fire control, due to it’s accuracy(tracking range, speed, bearing, etc..) will always have severe limitations against stealthy aircraft. There are other bands, whose wavelengths have better chances of detecting a stealthy aircraft, but they can’t guide weapons. In any event, the detection range of the ESM on the F-22/35, will always exceed whatever band radar being used against it. This is why unless the entire country was covered with radars no more than 20 miles from the next radar, along with SAMs, there are going to be gaps in coverage that can and will be exploited.

Range is exceeding so what. Unless u have the weopons to exploit that range.U can put space radar with 24000km range.

Here’s an example of how Russian air space isn’t inpenetrable

Very bad example from communist era. and no one thought about civilian planes at those times. Imagine West would have been communist for 100 years. i think even NKorea would do better.

Please explain why the PAK FA features stealth, if it’s of no utility. You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s a good thing, or it’s useless, and I believe the former to be true.

I can have both ways. Stealth is not only feature of PAK-FA and it isnt 5+ generation just because of stealth.

How many times does it have to be explained to you?

Russia IS developeing its own 5th generation fighter (THAT INCLUDES STEALTH).

Stealth is ONE criteria of what makes a 5th generation fighter.

IF as you have wet dreams about, stealth technology either has already been defeated or will be shorty then NOBODY would bother with it yet EVERYBODY (& that includes Russia) is spending a lot of time & money to bring stealth technology to their forces…

Russia is spending far more money on Almaz-Antei than it is spending on PAK-FA. What does this tell u?
Just look at new factories and component manufacturer thay have bought and its export contracts. They have production backlong now for decades to come. Sukhoi merely renovating factories not building new.

Then you knock out a few radars (either by jamming or destruction) to “make a whole”. In fact you make a number of “wholes” so the enemy does not know which one(s) you are using.

Ground based radar and missiles can be much faster and easily updated than aircrafts and they are alot more powerful. no compulsions on missile of fix aerodynanic shape.

Just because you invest a lot of time & money DOES NOT mean you find the answers you are looking for…

Surely they havent found the answer:diablo:

The point of stealth is that radars that are overlapping for conventional aircraft, and the ranges at which they can be detected, are not overlapping against an F-22/35(unless they want to put radars within 20 miles of each other all over the country). The ESM on these planes tells them where the emitters are, so that they can choose routes avoiding coverage.

What if Radar performance is such that there is no place to avoid them. Read about Almaz-Antei. They have thousands of experts working for them and real orders booked for next 10 years with fully funded 5th generation SAM under development.
Not like LM trying to lobby around the world for 5th generation fighters.