star49Personally, I see no reason why Ukraine would consider Russian Equipment. Especially, when they want to get Russia out of its old former Cold War Air Bases and Ports! Really, the ideal solution would be a European Type. (Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, etc.) This would of course move Ukraine closer to Europe but not directly to the United States.
Ukraine is simply not capable of moving Russian Black Sea fleet. Infact Russia is increasing Blacksea fleet. Ukraine is already becoming to Russia what Mexico is to US. U cannot have free borders with sharp wage differences and inflation moving in opposite directions.
EU is merely slogans left. It is EU necessity to cooperate with Russia not the otherway around.
http://www.culturaldiplomacynews.org/index.php?id=140,1139,0,0,1,0
According to Kouchner, all foreign ministers of the EU Member States decided already at their last meeting that resuming talks with Russia is inevitable. Partnership and cooperation are seen as necessities when defining long-term relations with Moscow.
star49It will still be bigger than Ch-47
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/372000.htm
Russian arms maker Oboronprom and China’s AVICopter signed a memorandum to jointly develop a civilian heavy helicopter. “We’ve had the blueprints, and they have the money,” said Ilya Yakushev, a spokesman for Oboronprom, referring to China. China wants to develop and produce the helicopter, whose weight will be around 30 tons, on its own territory, said Russian Helicopters, Oboronprom’s helicopter manufacturing subsidiary.China is ready to finance the project, said the company, adding that any details were up for negotiation. The Mi-46 helicopter currently being developed in Russia could provide the basis for the new aircraft, the company said in a statement.
Russian Helicopters also signed a framework agreement to sell four older, Mi-26 heavy helicopters to China, the world’s largest helicopter importer, the company said
star49Exactly, like in 1945 Soviet Russia helps in unifying Western Europe even in times of crisis. A strong Russia that regularly hits its neighbors, blocks oil supplies or makes fake attacks on English coastal cities guarantees thousands of jobs in European defense industry.
Thank you, Mr. Putin, and please say also thanks to the guy that you made “president”.
Those days are permanently gone. U cannot increase defense expenditure in money and volume of productions. that is the end result of bankrupt policies.
Which stock exchange market had the most severe losses in the last weeks?
I guess it was the Russian!
Oh, and just more bad news for the mighty Soviet empire: oil doesn’t trade for 120 bucks a barrel any more, seems like they have to earn the money by work again.
Surely. low stock market and low Oil prices are more threat to Western economy than to Russia.:D. Where do u think all those hedge fund losses/insititutional investor/penson funds lossess came from. because they have invested heavily in big Mineral and Oil giants. ur looking at trillions.
Then I would propose a fighter version of the dreaded Antonov 70.
I said they make engines and components of various fighters. MotorSich is closely tied with Klimov/Salut. They can make cheap single engine version of MIG-29 or Yak-130 by themselves if they have funding. There is no chance of spending billions on Gripen.
Like the political impact it would have in Russia if they sell weapons to a country like Iran. They only sell as much weapons as a country can have before it may become dangerous.
Hey, they even sold only crappy MiG-21 and MiG-23MS to the enemies of Israel in the late 1960ies, just not to **** Israel off. Or didn’t they have anything better back then?
Nope. They didnot sold they freely distributed down graded stuff at rock bottom prices and training/infrastructure regimes was not properly in place.
star49Ukraine is not exactly considering, it is waiting to get in. But the chances are very slim, I would put them at zero. European NATO nations will only agree if all conflicts with Russia are settled, they don’t want to get involved in such a conflict. Additionally, Ukraine in the NATO would destroy the last ties between Western Europe and Russia.
Good ties with Russia is in Western EU interest. They realized after after past 15 years of disasters. First toxic mortgages and supply of cheap debt (Read HSBC Auto exit) for US have completely destroyed Western EU banking sector while subsidizing Eastern EU has created large pool unemployment and lack of industries. Russia is only hope of Western EU.
For the fighters:
– I don’t think they can make their own.
– I don’t think they shop in Russia.
– I don’t think they have much money to spare.
UKraine will only buy what its Industries can produce part for like MotorSich/Progress/Antonov and they deal with Russian Industries more than there own government.
So, either they get used stuff from USA (which is becoming increasingly scarce), or they buy Chinese (which is difficult due to Russian technology content), or they turn to the Europeans & Americans for new stuff.
There we would see the usual suspects with good chances for Gripen and Lockmart. The only issue I’ll see is political pressure from Russia. On the other hand, Russia sells fighter jets to Venezuela, so I guess they will recognize they sit in the glass house.
There is reason for Russia not selling offensive weopons (Like Flanker with long range weopons). to Iran. Venzuella does not count. I doubt Gripen/Lockmart can afford those freebies.
star49Ah, the Malaysians. How could I have overlooked their subject matter expertise on classified systems/capabilities?
It was comparision between down graded under developed Russian system with downgraded Western system. Russian won fair and square. Nothing classified about export product.
star49In 2001 the Super Hornet didn’t have the APG-79, AIM-120C7/D, AIM-9X.
Neither was Su-30MKM developed nor are the weopns the same. There is two to three times average increase across the broad since Soviet production ended. Malaysian specialist considered Radar equal range to 2006 APG-79. They were looking couple years into future.
star49The only way any Mig-21 is gonna challenge an F-15/16 in BVR, is if they’re out of missiles. As for the SU-30MKI/MIG-29SMT, if they go up against a Western fighter with AIM-120C7/D in BVR, they’re gonna lose more often than not. In WVR, they’re gonna have trouble if they face the AIM-9X, ASRAAM, IRIS-T, Python 4/5 in conjunction with a HMS.
MIG-21Bison is excellent aircraft and is proven in exercises with USAF and RSAF. Thats why order more kopyos. It is going to stay. Both India And Malaysia has options of Western BVR/WVR missiles and but they havent taken up unlike LCD displays. In 2001 Su-30MKM vs F-18E there was no contest as far as air to air and antiship role is concerned and that time radar was not fully developed.
star49With all due respect to the J-10 fanboy’s on this thread let me say this…
If Chinese weapons and avionics were as good as advertised to date, then why does Pakistan require significant western avionics and possibly weapons be integrated onto the JF-17 Thunder? Does COTS and Russian influence, along with the obvious technical improvements in China mean they are making better and better avionics? Yes of course it does. Can they be classed in the same league as Russian, Western European or American systems as of yet? I would respectfully submit they cannot.
You have to understand India gets second best weopons from Russia with certain own modifications. There is no aircraft that can challenge Su-30MKI except F-22. Similar is case with MIG-29SMT. Enhanced engine/Radar/IRST/fuel/weopons. Even MIG-21Bison can challenge F-16/F-15 in BVR. There certain gap left between Russians and Chinese.
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews+articleid_2734538.html
(Source: Daily News Bulletin; Moscow – English)MOSCOW. Oct 23 (Interfax-AVN) – The military-technical cooperation between Russia and China will steadily develop at least until 2015, deputy director of the Federal Service for Military- Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) Vladimir Paleshchuk told a press conference at the Interfax head office on Thursday.
“I am convinced that our relations with China during the current crisis will only strengthen. I think that until 2015 there will be no problem at all to talk about the scaling down of our cooperation with our Asian partner. China is interested in us, as we are in China,” he said.China “is the key factor of global economic progress,” Paleshchuk said. According to forecasts, over the next 20-30 years this country will grow faster than the most developed nations, he said.
After 2015 China can increase its production potential to a level, where it will be able to produce weapons on its own, Paleshchuk said.
Asked by Interfax-AVN about a certain information “lull” in deals with China, Paleshchuk said: “The main reason of such impressions is because of the constant talk about multi-billion contracts with our other partners – with our friend Hugo Chavez on arms supplies to Venezuela, talks on supplies to India and Algeria. This somewhat pushed the Chinese topic away from the front page.”
(c) 2008 Daily News Bulletin; Moscow – English. Provided by ProQuest LLC. All rights Reserved.
star49They are not relying on copied and licensed Russian weapons, they’re relying on licensed Russian platforms. The electronic guts however are different. Like the modern Russians now, the Chinese are heavily relying on current COTS technologies on their radars, links and missiles. That makes quite a bit of different even circa with the best weapons in the nineties. I’m not saying they are surpassing the best what the “West” has now, but the gaps have narrowed. And by the way, it was through the “graciousness” of the West in the past that gave a massive heads up in the Chinese development. To put it in another way, due to globalization of COTS, whether its a Russian, Chinese, American or European system, you’re going to find Made in Taiwan FPGAs and other stuff inside that is so “PC”.
It is not the graciouness of West rather West didnot have Choice. They financed the previous Cold war with Debt and Opec money . Which put deficits into there budgets. which increased cost of living without increase in productivity (As men/money/material invested into non-prodctive defese industries)that will prevent every thing outsourced to Asia.
In terms of reserves right now, they are. 1.9 trillion now counting to 2 trillion, over 2 trillion if you want to count Hong Kong’s reserves.
Thats the most important difference. countries like China/Japan/Russia can defend the currency within the target basket but UK/US/EU/Australlia can’t do it. It is uncontrollable rise and fall and with that all investment/trade decision. One day Airbus will be looking for US manufacturing and on another day the reverse will be true. They cannot make decision one way or another as there governments lack the finances to control currencies thats why there is desperate cry for new financial order from EU.
star49You’re funny.
I am very realistic with changine times. With such scale of money. large industrial complex can be maintained and they are very efficient for large scale projects.
That’s M 1.8+ for the SH, and the Typhoon out accelerates Flankers, as well as cruising faster. I’ll admit the Foxhound is faster though.
http://www.boeing.com Even boeing does not claim Mach 1.8. It is only Mach 1.6. Typhoon cannot out accelerate upgraded Flanker. Chinese will continue to built J-11 and Russian will continue to upgrade Flankers and India will continue to buy MKI. EF is not wanted by those who invested in it. so u will never see upgraded engine for EF. and AESA will only be available when basically all fighters are delivered so whats the point.
star49I have a hard time believing that by having the capability to build licensed(or not) copies of Russian weapons, that China has had a revolutionary technological breakthrough, surpassing the best systems of the west. That’s not to say that they can’t build good weapons, but it’s perhaps a bit presumptuous to assume they’ve not only surpassed the Russian weapons, but those of the West too.
China has even more money than Japan/EU/US combined. COTS have big influenced on avionics and Russia technolgoy is pretty high. Even downgraded stuff will give them fighter better than aerodynamically deficient fighter F-18E with only Mach 1.6 topspeed. J-10 is nothing less than EF in supersonic performance but behind Su-27SM/Su-35/MIG-31.
star49PAK FA’s biggest requirement is to approach F-22 capabilities, yet be affordable.
You’re dreaming if you think it’s gonna exceed the Raptor, being the first stealth fighter Russia has ever built.
Where u get PAK-FA requirement is too approach F-22? I have direct quotes from Sukhoi General director that PAK-FA requirement is to exceed any other aircraft. Su-27 was also the first heavy supermaneourable aircraft with long range capability.
star49So I suppose there’s no reason for the PAK FA either then eh?:cool:
PAK-FA requirements are far higher than F-35/F-22. and it is built internal for development of Russian aviation industry and possilbe retaining export clients and global influence. for F-35 British has to pay with depreciated pounds and practically nothing to gain.
star49Well, a quote from your fellow Russian comrade:
Yes. there is nothing wrong with technogloy transfer provided what is given in return. u cannot expect technology transfer and offsets in same deal. You have to chose one. Look at China/India they spent billons to acquire TOT but no offsets. Brazil conditions are much harder. They put long delivery time with technolgy transfer and offsets. They are not buying direct aircrafts that there is any benefit for Russian worker. with kind of offset investments. Russia agree for Ak ToT for Venzuella after they bought 100,00 in advance with full paid money for factory. ur comparing totally different kind of competition.
Just a paper speification? It´s much, much more real than the PAKFA 😮
surely more real than PAK-FA. let see how many actual fighters are built.
As I said are you a comedian, comrade? :p
Your comments are so screwed they´re not to be taken seriously. In your mind I´m sure you think Russia is a great country and Putin a great leader 😀 -Geat real!
I havent commented on political systems. I am just saying based on availalbe evidence SAAB cannot be compared to Sukhoi nor every fighter competition requirements and conditions are same and every thing has to be proven. not dummy specifications.
star49I think by any financial measure, the US economy is significantly larger than Russia’s.
What’s the median per capita income in Russia again, seeing as how things are so rosy there?
Not by real measure. when cost of taxes/cost of living/debt supplied for existence both private and public economy. US economy can only be larger than Russia if more debt is created. It is the high end engineering sectors there isnt much difference.BMW will be sold more in US but they are more profitable in Russia. US economic system has completely destroyed European banks and firms through supply of debt. THats why they are crying in front of Russia for new financial order.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_42/b4104000670377.htm
Russia hit $6.4 billion, a 29% increase vs. the same period a year earlier. By contrast, machinery exports to the U.S.—which has a much larger economy than Russia—were stagnant at $9.9 billion in the first seven months. “Russia has more than made up for the U.S.,” says Ralph Wiechers, chief economist for the German Engineering Federation.
how much did an AIM-54C weigh? Yet the AIM-120D is superior kinematically, and against manuevering targets.
Yes that 30 period gap in manufacturing and development. R-27 is still built with refinements.
How many air bases does the RuAF have forward deployed, with the ability to maintain, arm, refuel, operate tankers vs. the USAF?
They have bases in Armenia/kazkhistan/krygyztan/Tajikistn/Uzbek. Pretty muc covering Ex-Soviet States. IF need they can quickly deploy to Yemen/Syria and North Africa. It is not a big deal for them if there is requirement.
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